To be absolutely heartbroken for the girl who's thong was used against her in a rape case

[easielouisie]

Incase you haven't seen it:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46207304

Its been a long day and I'm very tired but I am so completely heartbroken for this girl and feel so hopeless for us ever getting anywhere, it's like one step forwards ten steps back.

I've just got in and am sobbing for her, how can a female solicitor turn on a young potential rape victim and dangle a thong for the duty to ponder if she was asking for it. I'm horrified this is remotely accepted no wonder girls don't want to come forward its humiliation at its finest.

A similar thing happened years ago and a young girl had to read out the slogan "little devil" from the thong she wore when she was raped. She killed herself following the trial.

AIBU to feel like we'll never get anywhere and people will always be disgusting? I wouldn't be responsible for my actions if I met that woman.

Just hurts my heart how cruel life is sometimes

"They used to use "evidence" of promiscuity to cast doubt over the credibility of the witness. Now that's been addressed" since when? I've seen several recent rape cases where the victims "character" has been used as a pathetic but effective defence! Including when the victims were children!

Truly appalling that rape victims are STILL having to defend

THEIR clothes
THEIR behaviour at the time of or immediately before the attack
THEIR sexual history
THEIR alcohol/drug consumption

While the rapists clothes, behaviour, sexual history (including previous convictions or allegations) are barely even acknowledged.

Patently, blatantly wrong!

Winegummybear - simple - make it illegal to do this in a court! That's the best way to stop immoral lawyers!

I have been heartened though to see the #thisisnotconsent, protests in Ireland, commentary on FB in support of this young lady and vilifying the barrister AND the law which allowed the barrister to do this, have posters seen the Irish MP Ruth coppinger addressing the issue?

There's so very little done to address rape myths. The laws around what can and can't be presented in court needs serious overhaul!

We also, I think need far more prime location/timing public info ads correcting rape myths.

I remember when I'd just joined mn (or may have been when I was still lurking) there was an outcry over a rail company's ad campaign that was basically saying "women! Don't get raped!"

And we still seem no further forwards.

It is an utter disgrace.

In terms of this:
It's brought home to me how foul some people's opinions are (outside of mumsnet). I'm gladdened that people see sense on here. Thank fuck.

I recently felt absolutely honour-bound to comment on a police thread about a sexual assault local to me on FB where people were seemingly questioning the victim being out at 3am. I expected an argument with misogynistic arse holes to ensue and was as generally I avoid FB arguments. But no about 40 likes from both males and females/ comments of agreement only. It reassured me most people are normal. Even a 'sorry of course you're right' from one of the original commenters.

I think most people would be utterly horrified by this including in Ireland. And the lawyer needs striking off, no more or less.

@popc0rn - that Tracy Ullman sketch is fantastic, shows how ludicrous it is.

My teen dd is the one who brought this case to my attention, she and her friends were horrified. I’m struggling to find any decent explanation for it because as an adult I am horrified too. That poor, poor girl.

This sums it up quite well

If they had to resort to this tactic it shows their defence case is pretty shit. This shouldn't be allowed in a court ever, its ludicrous.

Failing that do we all have to wear knickers with "don't rape me" emblazoned all over them?

I know the conduct of the female barrister is questionable, but please can we stop using foul language towards her. She was doing her job.

Of a case is so flimsy it falls apart with a pair of knickers the rapist wouldn't have known she was wearing til he was raping her then she could have done her job without using them.

She's vile plain and simple

I have no words
I am so proud of the Irish women making a stand here

What can we do ?

Seventeen years old

Fuck fuck fuck

We could have something better than public court for rape but nobody cares.

Hopefully, the (alleged) rapist is now on the police radar. The idea of a person close to 30 trying to have sex with a 17 year old is awful. It really seems like its a case of an older man targeting young vulnerable girls. My guess would be that he has done this before, and was a factor in the gardai supporting the case. The vast majority of rapists are serial rapists, leaving a string of victims, having had a great time with victims, and getting away totally free to offend again.

I would love to see a statement (anonymous of course) from the girl, supported by her legal team, in a public forum where she outlines the impact of the barrister comments ... It might (or might not) bring home the impact of those words to the barrister.

Tea - I'm really glad that you had positive comments elsewhere. The comments my friend showed me were sickening.

Someone (elsewhere) said that rapes could be prevented through awareness and that if someone got raped twice shame on them. They said that rapes could be prevented like gum disease could be. The comments were honestly the worst I've ever read. I didn't know people still thought like this.

The thread I was showed is here:

www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9110082

I don't believe you need to register to post.

Outrageous.

FWIW i dont prerer thongs, i dont feel sexy in them but I wear them all the time as I go to the gym at work daily so can't have VPL. To imply that they might be classed as provocative is grossly unfair.

One person also said "a lot of what is being referred to as rape is stupidity on the behalf of women". That wasn't an isolated comment.

This is the kind of thinking we are up against. Like i said I was stunned to read comments like this and to be shown how some people thought. it was truly eye opening.

Oh ffs- this is the Belfast rugby rape trial again.

Just sickening, and unbelievable. Well done to Ruth Coppinger.

Whilst I understand that a lawyer's job is to defend their client, and everyone is entitled to a defence- this the one reason that I can never see myself going into criminal law for- as a woman, I could not live with myself if that entailed going after some poor woman who I could see was a victim, be it of rape or domestic abuse and using her past or her flipping underwear to verbally crucify her in a court.

Just couldnt and will not do it.

That poor kid.

FearLoveAndTheTimeMachine Sorry, I mean I don't know whether he did it or not, but the details of the case I have heard sound damming. The girl was put down in a muddy field and a witness saw the man put his hand round her throat. That doesn't sound like a virgins idea of a great first time does it. Not that it makes a difference she was a virgin. But you know what I mean.

fatasfook Everyone is mad and knows it could be their daughter that's why it's heartbreaking. And beanaseireann yeah I know its Ireland I saw the matches and MP, the problem is it's a big racket for a short while and all the people who could make a change wait for it to die down and blow over which is what normally happens. It's so hard to make a change what do we do.

And finally, CondomsLubricantAndFlapjack no sorry, I'll use whatever language I feel when discussing the horrid woman. See pp, we've already discussed her job and whether it's okay because she was paid, no it isn't. Is that really what you drew from this whole thread?

I hope the girl gets through this, like so many don't, and makes a statement or something. Anonymous or not. After the Brock Turner case (does anyone remember that?) when the victim allowed her statement to be released it was heartbreaking but touched so many people.

Thankyou for all your comments

Victim blaming. Alive and kicking in the 21st Century.

A fucking disgrace

YANBU, its disgusting.

I did not report my rape as I am aware of how victims are treated, and he would have got off with it anyway as I had had a drink (just one though) and my top was slightly low cut so you could see a bit of my cleavage, so that would be taken as I consented or something

This hits hard at home.
When I was 13 I ran away from home, a 30 year old took me and my friends in. Gave us alcohol and after I had been sick he had sex with me. I didn't want it but I just froze!.

I was persuaded to report it 6 months later. The police used blaming tactics including using alcohol to make out I consented. How a 13 year old can consent to a 30 year old I don't know.
Anyway he is walking free because I couldn't handle the painful questions. I thought I must have given him the impression I was okay with it.
People looked at me differently and I'm sure some people still don't believe me.

It ruins your life.

YABU, I only heard about it as DH said "have you read this?" He was outraged and incredulous that it was allowed to happen.

The poor girl, I hope she has good support.

This strikes at the heart of the misogyny in attitudes towards sexual encounters.

If women truly enthusiastically consented, they wouldn’t then be going around however long after saying oh no I didn’t really want to.

However the expectation is not of enthusiastic consent - its of women being persuaded into it, going along with it, getting ‘carried away’ and afterwards worrying about it. As long as we as a society set the bar for consent so low, shit like this will continue to be drawn into rape cases.

Really, if you had sex with someone, you should be in a position where either 1) they will happily say to the police yep I had sex with them or 2) expect to be prosecuted (whether you are or not).

Well said @batteriesallgone.

Essentially, in Britain, being female is excuse enough to be deemed to have given consent.

Let's face it, there was a very very short time in the late 90's and early 00's, when women and girls had any protection in law from male violence. And the little that we gained is now being taken away.

We need some kind of mass sex strike, or something.

I could cry.
I hope to God that girl has the strongest, best support around her. Beyond brave of her to have even reported it and seen it through. Beyond.

And finally, CondomsLubricantAndFlapjack no sorry, I'll use whatever language I feel when discussing the horrid woman

I didn't say she was right, but she was doing er job. Lowering yourself to use foul language is just as bad.

TalkGuidelines

I'm not letting this supportive thread turn into a bickering match. But no, in no universe is bad language on par with what happened