To ask for advice about siblings...

[Putmedownforanap]

I have two children, my daughter is nearly 3 and my son 8 months. Both are adopted, which isn't terribly relevant except to explain why I am a 'new Mum' to an 8 month old...

My son has been with us for about 5 weeks. He is a lovely, happy easy baby although it hasn't been the easiest few weeks as we've all been ill with various horrible bugs and are generally run down and exhausted.

My daughter is very excited about having a brother, but is really heavy handed and over the top with him. I can't leave them out of my sight for a second as she is always trying to pick him up, 'hug him' etc. If he is asleep in the rocker or buggy she wants to wake him up and she is always asking to 'help'.

It's driving me bananas! He is a pretty solid, calm baby but she quite often makes him cry (which then makes her cry) and I feel like I am always telling her off even though she isn't really doing anything wrong. I have tried to get her to do less 'hands on' stuff to help, like going and getting nappies/wipes etc. but she isn't interested...

Obviously I don't want to dampen her enthusiasm, but I'm finding it really hard to manage and I feel constantly guilty about both of them!

Does anyone have any wise words/reassurance? I'm thinking this is fairly normal behaviour???

Find some specific fun things to do together that can only be done with her db asleep! Incentive to keep him asleep!! And choose specific 'jobs' that are just hers to do. Fetch bag for nappy changes, let her choose outfits, add the bubble bath at bath time, all important big dsis stuff!!
Let her know some 'jobs' are just for a dm to do!!

Ah thanks Santa choosing the outfits and putting in the bubble bath are both things she would LOVE (though God knows what the poor little thing will be dressed in... ). Do you speak from experience? Does her behaviour sound fairly typical? She just seems totally manic and her listening skills etc have gone out of the window!

I think she sounds typical and excited. I would not try to stop her from having contact with the baby, as that is how they will build their bond, but supervise closely with lots of encouragement to use kind hands.

We have this with our 5 year old and our 7month old.
It’s just a case of repeating ourselves that he’s a baby, about being gentle, giving lovely kisses etc.
We also gave the oldest a rather big hug to show the difference between a bigger person hug and being careful of the smaller person IYSWIM.

I had a similar age gap between my daughter and son and found I had to have eyes in the back of my head!! As PPs have said, constant reminders about being gentle and massive praise when she gets it right.

Can you give her a doll? So she can do things with you, using the doll.

firstly congratulations!

I think not being able to leave them alone for a second is normal, and something you would take for granted if your daughter was younger. I used to have systems of leaving one in the cot and another behind a stairgate while I showered, or older one in front of the TV for 5 mins while I took the baby up. The heavy handedness is exhausting but should pass with lots of reminders and practice at "gentle". Usual rules apply - say positive words like "gentle" rather than "no hitting" because the "no" bit can get lost. Maybe get her to practice being gentle on her dolls or brushing your hair, and give her lots of physical contact. Hopefully the excitement will wear off!

I hope this isn't callous - the fact I'm wondering might mean it is, so apologies if so - but if your son were a new newborn and not even supporting his own head, there is no way you would allow her to pick him up or give him hugs. It would be plain dangerous. It is fine for her to be subject to those sort of ground rules - they are normal rules for toddlers with younger siblings. It won't stop them being affectionate when they are older and she's calmed down a bit.

I had 5 dc in 5 years so feel able to advise!! I do remember the first bath, front room rug, dd up to her ears in bubbles. And a ds pulled the plug out! Trying to stay calm when I wanted to cry!! Honestly the more you let them help, less likely to feel jealous /left out - all mine seriously close, even as teens now!!

Congratulations on your new addition 😍😍. It's a tough time for older siblings, trading the excitement of a brother against sharing her mum. She'll settle and from your post and previous posters, it's clear that you're doing your best to involve her, encourage her and spend special time with her. Again, congratulations

Five weeks is not a long time, everything is still new and exciting.

When DD came along DS was three and I honestly feared he would kill her with kindness!
DS was in charge of fetching nappies, wipes and such like. Every night he choose her bedtime book and when she went to sleep We used to keep a jigsaws handy and do them together when she napped to stop him waking her.

OP, have you seen the adoption board? Have both been placed 5 weeks ago? Are they genetically related?

Yes, a certain amount of "enthusiasm" is normal. The dynamics of having a pregnant mum and a newborn are very different to getting an older baby suddenly, for both you and DD, though! Are you getting 1-1 time with DD? 5 weeks in is tough.

My mum had to buy me a play pen to protect me from my 3,5 year old sister, she used to pick me up around the neck and try to carry me. It was the only way she could protect me as she had my other 7 year old sister and 22 month old brother to look afer too.

Maybe a playpen to protect the baby and give you some assurance that the baby is safe when you have to do something. We had one for our son when he was born it certainly kept his big sister away, and gave him somewhere safe to play when I was vaccuming or washing the floor.

Agree that a certain amount of "enthusiasm " is normal (although ds1 couldnt have been less interested in ds2 and im told this is normal too) but bear in mind there may be quite a bit of anxiety under the excitement plus maybe some insecurity/jealousy. Make sure you praise her/give her attention for lots of things that are nothing to do with "helping with the baby" otherwise her need for reassurance may lead to more and more enthusiastic "helping".

Thank you everyone, sorry for the slow response, manic day as always! BarbarianMum I think you might be right, thank you, that is very insightful. I'm sure there must be some anxiety underneath, it's such a massive thing for her. I think I would feel more confident if she were showing more classic 'jealous' behaviour, like I have seen in friend's children. Both my husband and I are spending an afternoon a week with her alone, doing her favourite activities and because he is such a relaxed baby she is still getting a lot of time attention and affection!

thomassmuggit I haven't posted anything on the adoption board as I wasn't sure it was relevant, though you're right a 8 month old suddenly appearing is very different to a new born! They are birth siblings. Both were removed at birth and fostered for around 7 months before being placed with us. Our daughter has been with us just under 2.5 years. She is a generally pretty well adjusted, happy little girl, typically developing but very busy!

had lots of this kind of behaviour with DC1 when DC2 arrived. Aggression in the guise of “affection”. Once, a few weeks in, I nipped into the kitchen for 2 mins, DC1 was watching TV, DC2 snoozing in bouncy chair thing, when came back in and DC1 was sat right on top of DC2/chair, completely squashing DC2, calmly watching the TV!

DH and I tried to spend some 1:1 time regularly with DC1.

Recommend the book Siblings Without Rivalry (although don’t think the title is actually possible for most families!)

Agree with all the good advice my niece used to spend lots of time with me and was keen to help with her younger cousins and had to reminded about gentle hands and not to pick them up.
I would let her hold them while she was sitting down and I was close by.
@goodiegoodieyumyum how’s relationship with Dsis now?

There will be people who understand the situation on the adoption board, too.

Ah sounds just like my kids. I have a 3.5 yo and a 1yo. I was a bit confused about the lack of classic jealousy. I described it as loving the baby a bit too much and the affection being great but, again, a bit too much (too strong a hug too strong a squeeze etc). I can see that things are improving slightly now that the little one is a year old and is getting better at interacting. Now they ca play a bit together which is really sweet to see (though still sometimes the play is a bit too rough). I'm hoping that as they can play more and more together the older one has more he can do with the little one.
THe only thing I can suggest is giving the older one tasks to do with the little one. Not that that has worked too well here in reducing the 'enthusiasm'.
And congratulations on the new baby :)

When dc2 was very new I taught not yet 2 year old ways to 'comfort' him that didn't involve treating him like a large teddy bear. Kiss gently on the head, say shuush, or bring him her best teddy to share (I said a teddy, she brought her best one if he was very upset!) As a newborn he didn't really give a toss, when he was older he had a dummy she would fetch for him. The point was that she felt she was helping. We also encouraged bonding, for example she would kiss goodnight the parent not doing bedtime, and the baby. I let her 'show him off' to people and tell them his name. Buggy board on the pram- I still smile when I see these. Let her be the expert on him when you meet people (I know some adoptive parents don't see a lot of people when the child is first placed, but you will at least see a social worker and probably the odd visitor / people dc1 knows).

Oh I so feel for you. We had an unexpected suprise when the the eldest was 9 and younger 6. They wanted a puppy and treated her as one. 😳 happily they all survived and now in adulthood. Good luck Mum you doing a great job

We are in a very similar situation, OP. Adopted DS1 aged 8 months (now 2.5) and this April adopted his full sibling DD1, also aged 8 months.

I didn’t expect it to be love at first sight, but I have to say, it’s been far, far worse than we’d anticipated. Even now, seven months on, I can’t hold or cuddle DD without DS either trying to hit her, bite her, throw a toy at her or (best case) insist on sitting on my lap at the same time and giving her a very OTT ‘hug’. People keep telling us it’s ‘typical sibling behaviour’, but my gut instinct is that it’s exacerbated by them being adopted. DS had a hard time in foster care and I think, subconsciously, he’s feeling very insecure. We are waiting to hear back from adoption support (suspect it’ll be a long wait!) re theraplay fpr them both.

Yes this is definitely normal. My dd was the same but she was 4.
you need to set ground rules, things she absolutely can never do e.g. taking baby on stairs, picking him up when you are not in the room, going into his bedroom when he is sleeping etc. but also give her lots of opportunitites to cuddle and love him and praise her for how kind gentle etc. she is and what a good sister. I am sure you are doing all these things.

yes agree with pp we plan what we will do when Dd2 is asleep as an incentove not to wake her.Something else that DS and Dd1 love to do is read to the baby and now dd2 can walk she will go and get a book and bring it to them. Your DD doesn't have to read to be able to look at dear zoo with DS.

Thanks everyone, that's all really good advice. I think she is feeling really insecure and anxious and it is manifesting in this really over the top (almost hysterical) behaviour towards DS. I'm feeling really anxious and guilty about our decision to adopt her brother as she was doing so brilliantly before he was placed. I just really hope it'll be OK in the long run... It's actually making it tricky to bond with our baby because I just want to comfort her all the time.

Rufus that sounds really tough . I think as adoptive parents it's so hard to know what is related to our children's early experiences and what is just 'normal'. I really hope things get better for you soon.

It would be worth posting on the adoption board because there’s a lot of very experienced adopters who might be able to help with this. It can be very hard to decipher what is normal development and what may be related to their adoption - and sometimes it doesn’t matter. Your daughter is coping with the same things you are, ie having an 8 month old land in her home without the usual 9 months of pregnancy, watching the baby grow in your tummy etc which I think is an important part of the process psychologically in adjusting to a new addition.

It may be difficult for her to express any uncertainty or negative emotions around her new sibling, a new arrival may throw up attachment issues for her because something massive has changed in her home life, she may think she needs to be positive and helpful or you’ll love new baby more... how old was your DD when she was placed? If she was a similar age she may be trying to work out how she might have been cared for because she won’t have explicit memory of that time.

In your shoes I’d go back to focusing on attachment with her. So use baby’s sleeping time to do theraplay type games with her (lots of eye contact, lots of skin to skin physical contact and touching). If you’re doing something to care for new baby, talk about how you remember doing the same for her when she was tiny, let her see photographs of her when she was smaller. Anything that builds bond with you and reminds her of your care for her is good. Don’t worry about her bonding with her new sibling, that’ll come in time just now she needs her attachment with you strengthened which in turn will allow her to ease back from over enthusiastic care for her sibling.