4+ school assessment rejection

[Pyracantha1]

Where we live the competition for state schools is very fierce. Too many children and far fewer places in good state schools. So people often have no choice but to apply to local private schools in case their child does not get into a good state school.

So my 3.5 year old had an 'assessment' at one of these private schools and we have now Been told that he was unsuccessful. This particular school I didn't really like anyway but it was a backup option.

I didn't expect to feel so bad after getting the rejection but to be honest it stings. My son is very bright, well behaved, inquisitive and loved his time at that school. So I am not sure what went wrong that they rejected him.

Anybody have insight into these 4+ assessments? What are the general reasons for rejection? AIBU to feel bad for my son even though I didn't particularly care about this school?

I went to selective schools, but don't remember any of this clearly 😂 Will quiz my parents

Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts everyone.

I see many parents are facing this same dilemma. Many also resort to tutoring at this stage. I did nothing. They should accept my child for who he is.

I have now been told to apply for more schools as my back up option of course is no longer a back up option! So here goes payment of more registration fees, Christmas cards with wonderful messages and monthly phone calls

I also think they look at family background, how much money you come from, old money vs. New money (yes that's also a thing around here!!). No exact science, regardless of how much they insist it is. Some schools are worse than others.

I would love to hear more from parents in the school system around K&C London.

Hi Josephine!

Yes!!! That's the one.

On my mobile app I'm not sure how to pm. Can you pm me?

Actually Josephine just realised it might not be that one. As it only has one sister school. But message me anyway as it seems like we are in the same area going through the same motions!

At the end of the day, all children are wonderful and unique, your ds has certainly not failed or any of those children who do not cut the mustard. Put this behind you, and find a school, maybe a non selective prep or state school that will be kind and nurture and support him. If I could afford to pay for a private school, it would be one that adheres to the Finnish school system, in which children learn through play as well as formal lessons.

OP, I think the way you have to look at it at this age is as a kind of lottery system. You may have to do about 4 such school assessments to get a place.

Then when you get in, a lot of parents will be stressing about preparing their DS’ for 7+ for the so-called “top” schools.

As a non-selective option, have you looked at any of the “House Schools Trust” options - I think Basset House might be your nearest? They may have a waiting list, but not sure? They’re great schools because they can cater for the super-academics, but also tailor support to those who need it. Friendly schools who can multi-task!

Tutoring for a 4 year old! Good grief. Let him play and be a normal kid and accept whichever schools he’s offered. He’s a baby. Any school which assessed and rejected 4 year olds is not a school I’d want my children in anyway.

Am still about the continued support of the 4+ process on here by some - and I speak as someone whose kids went through this process - several years ago!

I still dispute that any selection at this age will accurately sieve the most intelligent/most motivated kids from the population.

And how on earth can you discern which 3 year olds have a genuine love of learning in a family interview or any other setting?!

Reading this has just made me even more in favour of state education, where children have an opportunity to be friends with each other, no matter their income.

bbcbbcbbc - is there no sibling policy at the school then? If there is then presumably it would be difficult to attribute the secondary school success just to picking well at 4+?

is there no sibling policy at the school then? If there is then presumably it would be difficult to attribute the secondary school success just to picking well at 4+?

We don’t have a sibling policy - each child is assessed individually, on their own merits - and that is made clear to all parents applying.

If we had only two or three places left, and about ten equally bright and talented children to choose between, then we would realistically favour those with older siblings at the school already, because we know that their parents are far more likely to accept the offer (whereas for the others, our school might not be their parents’ first choice and they may well have other offers lined up).

So having older siblings at the school is a slight advantage, but will not get a child into our school by itself.

We do unfortunately have to reject a few siblings each year.

And how on earth can you discern which 3 year olds have a genuine love of learning in a family interview or any other setting?!

We ask questions about, for example, recent educational family outings that the child has enjoyed, e.g. a National Trust property or a castle.

If, the child is eager to talk about the castle and what they learnt, or the treasure hunt they did at the National Trust property, this suggests to us that they love learning new things and their learning is self-driven.

If on the other hand, the parents do all the talking, or have to prompt their child to talk about it, this suggests that the child didn’t engage fully with the experience.

We want children who are curious, fascinated by new things and ask lots of questions.

I should say, the interview are relatively new features of 4+ assessments - we’ve only been doing them for 5 years.

For the first 15 years I did this job, we only ever used the 90 minute play sessions. But over the last ten years, applications for our school (and most of our competitors) have increased almost exponentially. We had to introduce another stage to help us whittle down the candidates.

So despite the misgivings many in here clearly have, selective primary schools are getting more and popular and oversubscribed.

My 15 year old wouldn't be likely to want to engage in conversation about our most recent NT visit, let alone when he was 3.

I think if I was a parent asked about NT visits etc, I would cringe a bit. Often the things that engage and excite children are random - like a den they made in the garden or something. Not everyone is inspired by the “right” things and a lot of NT places or castles will just be boring for children, especially if they’re stuck in queues.

My DS was asked in an 11 plus exam - “Describe a recent expedition and how you felt about at the time.” There will be many DC who only get taken to he shops or something - as if all DC are trekking the Himalayas! I think the only reason DS got in was we had taken them to Lapland to see Santa so he described the Arctic scenery and the Northern lights Otherwise, at age 10, he might have written about walking to Starbucks or something.

Bbcbbcbbc - yikes. That would certainly make me think twice. Not something I would go for but clearly many others do. I suppose it’s no different at secondary but at primary at least I’d want mine together.

I think if I was a parent asked about NT visits etc, I would cringe a bit. Often the things that engage and excite children are random - like a den they made in the garden or something. Not everyone is inspired by the “right” things and a lot of NT places or castles will just be boring for children, especially if they’re stuck in queues

My 15 year old wouldn't be likely to want to engage in conversation about our most recent NT visit, let alone when he was 3

We don’t specify that it has to be a NT property - we just ask about a family outing.

This year past I had a three year old tell me about their visit to the Royal Observatory at Greenwich where they went to a kids’ show in the planetarium. Their excitement about it was tangible, and they knew the names of all the planets.

Other children have talked about a trip to the aquarium, or to a farm. It’s not what they talk about that matters - it’s how they talk about it.

We’re looking for children who are interested in the things around them - be that history, fish, animals or planets!

Obviously, not all children are excited by those sorts of things. But our school isn’t suitable for all children, or we wouldn’t select.