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AIBU?

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Original poster

New police guidelines

72 replies

Oldstyle · 13/11/2018 22:52

New police guidelines were posted today. They are intended to be inclusive. Specifically, that means that:
Male-bodied officers that ID as female with be able to search women (currently only women officers can search women).
Male-bodied people who ID as female (like Karen White) who commit crimes - including violent or sexually abusive crimes - will be recorded as female.
'Hate crime' will continue to include religion, race, gender, but will not include sex i.e. misogyny.
AIBU to be furious that women are being ignored in all this?

OP posts:
coppercolouredtop · 14/11/2018 00:00

sorry - should say one gay male police officer who is out. seems more acceptable for women who are gay to be out than men in the police for some reason.

the reality is gay men are not out in the police
gay women are

no trans officers that i know of in our force.

for searches best practice is men search men and women search women. its not always possible. cops can search anyone with grounds under sec 1 pace sec 23 drugs or after arrest. so this argument is a bit moot really. cops do what cops need to do regardless of sex or gender id. if a search is needed its done.

selfconfesseduggaddict · 14/11/2018 00:01

That's the impression I have from my friend @coppercolouredtop

He's quite old fashioned straight laced himself, when he talks about colleagues I just can't imagine a transwoman amongst them, unless they well and truly passed... and never ever told anyone

coppercolouredtop · 14/11/2018 00:02

what force is that jelly?

ReflectionsofParadise · 14/11/2018 00:05

@coppercolouredtop are you saying there aren't openly gay serving officers? GMP for example, has many, many openly gay males. So does Merpol and Cheshire. What are you on about?

selfconfesseduggaddict · 14/11/2018 00:05

Did you read the comments of retired cop though?

I suspect many share his opinion in the police

coppercolouredtop · 14/11/2018 00:06

that will be uniquie i can guarantee it.
and the force will be of the same opinion as you all.

one cop in how many thousand? (yes our numbers are depleted now now around half....dont get me started)

coppercolouredtop · 14/11/2018 00:07

in my force there are not many openly gay men. i dont know why. i know of one.

AornisHades · 14/11/2018 00:09

that will be uniquie i can guarantee it. How? Because you said I cant ever envisage a time that trans cops are a thing and yet here we are.

ReflectionsofParadise · 14/11/2018 00:10

Christ @coppercolouredtop You'd have a field day in Brighton Hmm

coppercolouredtop · 14/11/2018 00:10

so whats the opinion. should we embracing sex change officers or not?

what do the public want regards this issue?

Kokeshi123 · 14/11/2018 00:13

and i cant ever envisage a time that trans cops are a thing. truly its a very laddy culture as it is. i struggle as a woman.

There are basically two types of transwomen (biologically male people who identify as women).

Type 1 is the type who grew up as a "feminine-presenting" boy, is attracted only to men, and usually transitions in their teens (and they often pass very convincingly regardless of whether they alter their appearance with surgery). These transwomen tend to go in for stereotypically "female" employments more often, like being a florist or hairdresser.

Type 2 is the type who grew up as a standard, "masculine presenting" boy and developed into a "masculine-presenting" heterosexual man. They usually transition in adulthood (often after age 30) and are very often married at the time of transition. They not only tend to work in "male-typical" jobs but in fact are somewhat overrepresented in noticeably "masculine" careers--they seem to be found in high numbers in the tech industry, engineers, the military and so on. Their desire to present as women appears to be part of the cross-dressing spectrum and is linked with paraphilia (unusual sexual preference), so women are understandably more nervous about this type.

Type 2 transwomen will most definitely be found in the police force--in fact, I am pretty sure I have already seen cases being profiled.

coppercolouredtop · 14/11/2018 00:15

me? im totally open minded.

i welcome anyone who does this job. lesbian bi gay or trans.

im not sure what the issue is on this thread really.... personally i know of no cops who are trans. a few who are bi and a couple who are lesbian, not many who are gay and out
me? no problem with any of it.

searches are necessary and gone by cops. cops who are gay straight rtans or lesbian. theyd be done no matter who - if necessary.
i just dont know any trans cops.

AornisHades · 14/11/2018 00:15

What do you mean by 'sex change'? The Stonewall definition?

selfconfesseduggaddict · 14/11/2018 00:16

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/trans-police-officers-share-tips-on-creating-inclusive-workplaces-in-powerful-filmukk_5a169fc1e4b0d4906cad6d27/

I was trying to google how many trans people work for the police roughy but haven't found

This is interesting though

coppercolouredtop · 14/11/2018 00:21

what do i mean.?
. if people who id as one gender or another want to do a job what is the issue.
the reality is that i no one not a single officer who identifies as a gender they were not born as.

and all cops can search any gender. its in pace. sec 1. any officer can search.

in reality there are no trans cops in my force - but if there were i cant see why its an issue.

Original poster
Oldstyle · 14/11/2018 00:23

Appreciate the discussions and I realise that this might just be virtue-signalling on the part of the police at the moment (but watch this space if previous 'just administrative changes' are anything to go by). But I'm still genuinely astonished that a bunch of senior police officers / officials came up with this and think that it's not just ok but commendable.

OP posts:
Jenny17 · 14/11/2018 00:25

I suspect the issue is women might prefer to be search this includes cavity searches by biological women.

coppercolouredtop · 14/11/2018 00:26

police officers can search regardless of gender now.

the right to search is not specific to gender.

ReflectionsofParadise · 14/11/2018 00:27

@coppercolouredtop your force sounds very sheltered and not very diverse. And very small if your 'experiences' are true or accurate.

I struggle to believe you're genuine tbh.

AornisHades · 14/11/2018 00:29

I'm curious to understand what you think transgender means. If a 6 foot 3 man turns up a work tomorrow with a beard and his size 14 feet, declares he's a woman today but won't be on Friday. Is he a woman?

coppercolouredtop · 14/11/2018 00:30

ive been a cop for 9 years. im now almost 50. my force probably is shelterred given its geographical location.

i know of one gay male in the job.
a few gay females.

not one trans person in the job.

not many women in the job to be honest.

selfconfesseduggaddict · 14/11/2018 00:31

I watched the video in my link (police trans awareness training video made by all trans people in police and production team, made by owl and fox)

and thought the transmen would definitely have me unaware they were trans if I worked with them

Not so much the transwomen, other than possibly helicopter cop but they did say they were openly trans

coppercolouredtop · 14/11/2018 00:31

im struggling now with what my personal beliefs are and what the jobs beliefs are.

ill leave it there.

i suspect i wont win this one.

Miscible · 14/11/2018 00:34

Actually, the Daily Mail has recently become one of the best newspapers that reports on women's issues.

Seriously? A 5 minute look at the current top stories on the website:

Cheryl puts on a VERY leggy display as she slips into a daringly cut scarlet gown

Amanda Holden, 47, flaunts her ageless complexion as she keeps her incredible physique in shape

Zara Larsson stuns in snakeskin shorts and billowy blouse

Maya Jarma cuts a casually chic figure

To say nothing of the upskirt shots all over the place, and their overt promotion of the stance that a woman's place is in the kitchen.