To think studying something you enjoy is not 'wasting your brains'

[Clothrabbit]

A colleague has a daughter who will be leaving school next Summer. She is extremely bright and is expected to do very well in her A Levels.

She really wants to be a nurse and go on to train as a midwife. Her mother and some colleagues who were chatting about it this morning are tutting about the fact that she would have no problem getting into a good University to study Medicine or Pharmacy or Radiotherapy or Physiotherapy and it's a shame she's 'wasting her brains' doing nursing.

AIBU to think (apart from the fact that nursing is an important job that requires lots of intelligence) that doing something you enjoy and really want to do is not 'wasting your brains'.

Ummmmm, you need more than 2 A levels at E grade or vocational qualifications to be a nurse. I qualified 20 years ago and had to get 3 A levels at C or above to get onto the degree course. I am now a Senior Manager in health, public health and social care research and have no doubt that the multitude of skills that I learnt at a nurse helped me get this job.

As a mum of a DD who has just started medical school, I can affirm that it takes much more than being studious and clever to a place medical school, let alone become a doctor. Most medical schools are moving away from the standard clever pupil whose intelligence is bound to make them good communicators and efficient doctor because we know its not the case. Competition is such that they can afford to pick the cleverer AND motivated AND resilient AND emotionally intelligent AND passionate about medical science.

There are clever pupils whose prospect of 10 years of study after A levels send them in sweat, or who are just not interested in the medical science as much as the caring side of health. If my DD had said she'd wa Ted to be a nurse, I would honestly have been as happy for her as much as if my DS announced that's what he wanted to do.

Plenty of men who could potentially become doctors choose other careers though. Ones less intellectually rigorous than medicine.

Also, for everyone saying "I/my kid could have been a whatever", you really don't know that . These careers take way more than just the marks in school, they also take dedication, luck, study and the most important is the desire to do it. So you can't say oh I could have been a doctor but I couldn't be bothered. Well then you couldn't have been a doctor then could you, you are missing the most important ingredient.

Butteredghost, yes I suppose you could argue I couldn’t be bothered. In my view, with some experience in healthcare work at the time I was making the decision, I made a considered decision that the benefits were not worth the costs. Frankly seeing the way doctors that I work with are treated I’m glad I couldn’t be bothered.

Couldn't be bothered or didn't want to do it, same thing. You didn't have the desire. It's like a lot of people claim oh I'm really smart but I just don't apply myself, well being able to apply yourself is the most important part of being smart.

Fwiw I agree that the costs outweigh the benefits of medicine as a career, so I think you and OPs friends dd have made a great decision. There's plenty of other careers out there where you make money and challenge yourself.

Are you happy in your choice as a cleaner?

I am not actually a hospital cleaner. I was being sarcastic to make a point. I would have hoped that was pretty obvious from my post.

Baffles me why you think medicine is such a great option for a bright kid Craft.
Anyone with a modicum of common sense would give it a huge swerve.
50-75k of student debt for working as a doctor in the car crash that is the NHS. No, anyone with their head screwed-on would choose an alternative career.

*So why do so many women chose nursing, and men chose to be doctors. Social conditioning (children's nurses toy in the pink box, doctors toy in the blue box), or low expectations, of the young women and their parents.

Most parents would be gutted if their son, who could go to med school, chose nursing. I'm one of those awful parents (according to one poster) who would be just as gutted if it was my daughter making that choice.*

But you seem to be expressing wider concerns around gender stereotypes, which aren’t really relevant here. There is no evidence that the young woman who we're discussing has been pushed towards nursing or told she’s ‘not good enough’ to be a doctor - quite the opposite, in fact. That’s the entire basis of the thread.

Yes, significantly more women than men go into nursing. Much of that may well be down to gender stereotypes. But you’re ignoring the millions of nurses who have no interest in becoming doctors - and the millions of men who have no interest in either career.

I am not actually a hospital cleaner. I was being sarcastic to make a point. I would have hoped that was pretty obvious from my post.

Given your bitterness on the topic, I would have said you being a hospital cleaner filled in a lot of blanks.

Midwifery is an absolutely fantastic career, providing that the working environment is supportive. Physiotherapy can also be a fantastic career. Basically, healthcare that works with the human body rather than despite the human body is where we need, as a society, to be focussing our energies.

I spoke to a young A&E doctor recently who is planning to quit to become a baker.

Studying something you loathe because your parents forced you into it is a far greater waste of brains than studying something you really want to do.

Being made to feel like you will never live up to expectations because your parents have told you they are disappointed in your career choice isn't much fun either.

Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place.

I'm a Student nurse also nearing the end of my training. I have friends who are qualified, ward sisters and Dr's. I also have friends who are cleaners, and my husband is a wonderful nursing assistant.

Everyone in my eyes has an amazing value but all the jobs are very very different.

Academically I'm a lot better than I remembered. I returned to education after a long long gap.

I hold a great grade point average. But academics don't help me alay a patients fears, comfort someone who is dying or teach a patient to self manage a newly diagnosed condition.

No one cares about what exam results I achieved (they were fantastic if that helps).... They want to know that I can look at my patient and tell if they are deteriorating.... I helped a team maintain an airway for 45mins a few months ago.

I'm sorry that anyone feels like Nursing is the poor man's meal. I'm so glad to have left 20 years of admin to retrain. I don't want to be a Dr. I want to be a Nurse.

My placement has a mix of male and female Nurses. Some of whom are advanced nurse practitioners. They prescribe, and are highly respected by Dr's and consultants.

There are amazing technical jobs for Nurses out there. I have had a taste of some technical jobs and I love complex care nursing, and I can't wait to qualify.

Craft, since you seem to think there is a clear correlation between pay and intelligence/stimulation at work you must think the academics who train these future doctors are far more stupid than they (and suffering badly from lack of intellectual stimulation as well).

whereisme, you didn't have to have a degree to become a nurse 20 years ago. Far fewer chose to go the degree route and there were less courses so requirements tended to be higher.

Some of the best Managers I have ever met in the NHS have been ex nurses. One was the Director of a Trust and I have to say she is by far and away the best Senior Manager of the best Trust I've ever worked with.

The problem is though, is that you actually want to have that career path to progress far in Nursing, and unless you do (apart from a few niche roles like Nurse Practitioner in Primary Care) health wise, you are always going to be in a support role rather than making the decisions. Progression is usually going to be through through managing people and resources and quite often dealing with a lot of admin rather than actually caring.

If I knew someone very bright, who was interested in the caring side, I would recommend that they did look towards medicine rather than Nursing. If someone extremely bright goes into Nursing and doesn't want to go into management to progress and wants to remain with patients instead - I think they would get bored very quickly.

There is a hell of a lot of routine work involved with nursing that can be very, very dull.

I am not actually a hospital cleaner. I was being sarcastic to make a point. I would have hoped that was pretty obvious from my post.

Do I was right then. Just a GF with no experience of the medical field who wants to sit behind a keyboard and slag off other prople’s Choices as being ‘lesser’.

Since you’ve not actually answered any of my previous questions i’m Guessing it’s unlikely you’ll answer this, but Craft please do share what illustrious career you have that has made you quite so scathing of nurses as a profession?

Funnily enough once upon a time I was a very very bright child doing STEM A levels and wanted to be a doctor. My parents - in particularly my dad - strongly discouraged me as he felt it was an awful job and a total waste of my brain!

Although my degree choice was mine in the end (I did maths) I do sometimes get the odd pang and wonder what sort of doctor I would have made. (And if I would have made one at all.)

Nursing is a very different job to doctor-ing. I know people who do both and they all agree that there is more freedom in nursing. Many of the nurses I know went abroad and made a mint. Some emigrated to other countries, others spent 5 years in Dubai, came home, bought their houses outright and went back into the NHS.

Nursing is an amazing career with fantastic opportunities. YANBU OP.

Mumoftwoyoungkids - I live in another EU country and know a lot of doctors my age (50s). Lots of them are bored silly with medicine and wish they had chosen a career with broader horizons.

I know several OTs with all As at A level. Its turned out well for them. Reasonably well paid, lots of part time and flexibility within that so has suited family life.

Far better life than becoming a doctor would have been in their cases.

Similarly I know a research nurse and nurse practicioner. However, like teaching I do think nursing is a tricky business to go into.
I was set to be a v high flyer and I wish now Id done OT!

If I knew someone very bright, who was interested in the caring side, I would recommend that they did look towards medicine rather than Nursing. If someone extremely bright goes into Nursing and doesn't want to go into management to progress and wants to remain with patients instead - I think they would get bored very quickly.

I think that is true. Nurses often progress as managers and will often be very good in that role but if they want to be in a clinical role then they will be considered junior to doctors.

Artifricial intelligence will soon replace many doctors jobs