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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think studying something you enjoy is not 'wasting your brains'

98 replies

Clothrabbit · 13/11/2018 14:29

A colleague has a daughter who will be leaving school next Summer. She is extremely bright and is expected to do very well in her A Levels.

She really wants to be a nurse and go on to train as a midwife. Her mother and some colleagues who were chatting about it this morning are tutting about the fact that she would have no problem getting into a good University to study Medicine or Pharmacy or Radiotherapy or Physiotherapy and it's a shame she's 'wasting her brains' doing nursing.

AIBU to think (apart from the fact that nursing is an important job that requires lots of intelligence) that doing something you enjoy and really want to do is not 'wasting your brains'.

OP posts:

alwayslearning789 · 13/11/2018 15:50

"Both have the same starting basic wage (22k)"

I think this is a fundamental issue in the decision to take it forward as a long term career.

Why do women choose to take the lower paying careers if they have the opportunity available?

The mum is right to highlight it to her now so she considers her full options.

Veterinari · 13/11/2018 15:53

I’m a vet, and therefore hopefully pass as ‘intelligent’ enough to evaluate that posters like craft clearly have no idea about the varied skill sets required for different roles in medicine, but are focussed only on the ‘bragging rights’ of how smart their offspring may be.

craft as you’re so ‘knowledgeable’ you’re probably aware that the university intakes for vets and doctors are overwhelmingly female so your argument of boy-doctor, girl-nurse doesn’t actually hold water.

You also clearly don’t have a clue about the various roles. As a vet I absolutely do not have the skills set to be a good vet nurse - it has nothing to do with my intelligence and everything to do with my interests and attention to detail in different areas. There are areas where I excel, and areas where the nurses I work with are streets ahead of me - that is why we work as a team. Anyone who considers nurses of any sort as ‘inferior’ to doctors is in my opinion, willfully ignorant and a snob.

Veterinari · 13/11/2018 15:57

Craft - there’s loads of male nurses. Loads.

How many of them had the grades and opportunity to go to med school, but chose nursing?

Probably relatively few - because sadly it appears that parents like you would not support those interests or even entertain nursing as a career option for an intelligent young man.

Thatwasfast · 13/11/2018 15:57

What do you do craft? Why are you arguing with actually doctors and nurses on their thread? You are spouting an old fashioned view of success, that the job with the highest entry grades and highest pay is the best, and everyone should be aiming for it. Erm, no. People are different, and different jobs will suit different people. It’s not a feminist triumph to put women in jobs they will hate for vague bragging rights.

Did you vote for Brexit by chance —I bet you did-

Soontobequalified · 13/11/2018 15:57

How many of them had the grades and opportunity to go to med school, but chose nursing?

I know a physio who gave up medicine to be a physio, not because he couldn't keep up but because it wasn't for him and not the same job!!!

Craft1905 · 13/11/2018 16:00

As a vet I absolutely do not have the skills set to be a good vet nurse - it has nothing to do with my intelligence and everything to do with my interests and attention to detail in different areas. There are areas where I excel, and areas where the nurses I work with are streets ahead of me - that is why we work as a team. Anyone who considers nurses of any sort as ‘inferior’ to doctors is in my opinion, willfully ignorant and a snob.

Do the vet nurses at the practice earn as much as the vets? If not, then it's not me that's the snob. Why are you underpaying members of your team, who you view as equal if not superior to you?

picnicinnovember · 13/11/2018 16:07

Craft
My manager is paid more than me. He doesn't think I'm inferior to him. But he makes the decisions, the buck stops with him, so he gets paid more.
That suits us both fine.

Veterinari · 13/11/2018 16:11

Do the vet nurses at the practice earn as much as the vets? If not, then it's not me that's the snob. Why are you underpaying members of your team, who you view as equal if not superior to you?

You seem to equate financial gain with intelligence - by this measure vets are ‘worth less’ than doctors, lawyers dentists and accountants, despite needing better university entrance grades, so once again your logic doesn’t add up.... salary is not comesurate with skill set.

However since you seem to be struggling, i’ll Explain basic salary structures to you. The general rationale is because vets graduate with approx 50-100k of debt after 5 years of university and an earning potential of between 25-50k unless they become practice owners. In general they are paid more because they’re training would otherwise be unaffordable. Nurses train with no university debt unless they choose to take the degree route and generally earn 18-30k. As more nurses enter undergraduate degree training and also take post graduate specialisation training, their salaries are increasing. See - nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with basic economics!

Piggyhoolier · 13/11/2018 16:19

The crux of the matter is what career will the young lady enjoy. If that’s nursing or midwifery then those professions have been lucky to gain an intelligent and dedicated new recruit and she certainly won’t be wasting her brains in either of those jobs. Sad that anyone would think so.

My DD is academically able to do pretty much any career she wants. Currently her ambition to be a mum and raise a family. If that’s what she ends up doing she’ll get no negative words from me. I’ve raised her to appreciate that happiness is more important than wealth and she knows that a particular job doesn’t make a person better or worse than anyone else.

Dungeondragon15 · 13/11/2018 16:19

My point, that you seem to delight in ignoring, is that people who want to work in health don't think to themselves 'I'm clever so I'll be a dr' or 'I'm thick so I'll be a nurse'.

Many absolutely do unfortunately, particularly in some ethnic groups although they don't say "I'm thick" so I'll be a nurse. It's more a case that if they want to be a healthcare professional and they choose according to their academic ability. Doctor is usually at the top followed by dentistry, pharmacy and nursing in that order. Very misguided and I laugh to think that the future "medics" may have a nurse as their line manager in the future.

ItsTheKissing · 13/11/2018 16:20

Actually nurses leave uni with £27k debt as it is an all graduate profession. I know this because I was a lecturer at the university (nurse) and the students were required to get AAB to enter the degree programme. I now work alongside junior doctors, doing a similar role to them and earning the same. I love my job, I am challenged, I make high level clinical decisions about lives and I also have all the skills I have developed as a nurse.

Being a nurse can take you anywhere in the world and there are a multitude of job opportunities, at many levels, in different sectors; don't knock it; it's not comparable.

Craft1905 · 13/11/2018 16:20

Vetinari, so in the days when uni was free, vets earned the same as vet nurses?

ItsTheKissing · 13/11/2018 16:22

Oh, and some of the CEOs of hospital trusts are trained nurses (and women ) .......they're the boss of everyone

Craft1905 · 13/11/2018 16:24

My DD is academically able to do pretty much any career she wants. Currently her ambition to be a mum and raise a family. If that’s what she ends up doing she’ll get no negative words from me

Great. And when your academically gifted DS says he wants to be a stay at home dad and raise a family, I trust you'll be equally delighted.

Thatwasfast · 13/11/2018 16:32

Why wouldn’t she be?

Piggyhoolier · 13/11/2018 16:35

Craft what an odd thing to say - of course I’ll be happy if my DS chose to do that, but he isn’t so academic and the post was about a female. So I responded with an anecdote about my female child.

My brother is about to become a SAHD, in my family we view both sexes as equals because, y’know, we’re not dicks.

PineapplePower · 13/11/2018 16:40

salary is not comesurate with skill set

That’s the real issue isn’t it? Salary is kind of a good way to judge how valued something is by society. Unfortunately, female-dominated jobs like nursing aren’t valued by society so they aren’t paid as well. It’s the pink-collar trap; I think there was a study saying that as men entered a profession it became more “valued”. They also, incidentally, tended to scale the ladder faster than their female counterparts.

It sucks OP and it’s definitely awful that professions like nursing get stigmatised this way. That person’s daughter could end up making valuable comments contributions to the field.

Veterinari · 13/11/2018 16:41

Vetinari, so in the days when uni was free, vets earned the same as vet nurses?

No of course not. Because veterinary nursing didn’t exist as a profession then. The veterinary nursing register was established in 2007. I do admire your confidence in expressing opinions on subjects that you are clearly ignorant of!

Regardless you haven’t really addressed my previous Point - could you please explain how salary relates to intelligence or skill set - you still seem to be labouring under misapprehension that these variable are all equivalent measures in order to cling to your own ignorant opinion!

MereDintofPandiculation · 13/11/2018 16:43

Well there are more nurses than doctors, which tells me that it's an easier option. There are more doctors than taxidermists, so being a doctor must be an easier option than being a taxidermist.

Craft1905 · 13/11/2018 16:44

Then I'm very glad you're not one of my parents because you sound horrible. Are you a nurse or a doctor? If not, please stop commenting because you don't know what you're talking about.

Nah, I'm a hospital cleaner. I had the grades and the potential to be a nurse, but at the age of 17/18 I decided to not follow that path and take up cleaning. My parents said nothing about it. Looking back, I've always thought they let me down somewhat. Lots of teenagers make choices they regret, and parents I thought should encourage them to maximise their potential and reach for the stars. To take the most difficult route. Make the absolute most of their particular academic abilities.

But now, thanks to MN, I know realise what fabulously supportive parents they were, allowing me to take up hospital cleaning without even raising the possibility that perhaps I should look at harder options, like nursing.

Veterinari · 13/11/2018 16:46

Oh and just to further flummox your salary-intelligence-skillset ‘equation’ it’s entirely possible for vet nurses to own their own practices and employ vets, and nurses are commonly employed to teach and train vets at vet school - how do these nurses stack up in your ‘intelligence-calculations’?

CrabbyPatty · 13/11/2018 16:46

Craft1905 I'm really confused by your position here. It seems like you're being quite obtuse. Are you trying to call out sexist perceptions of career choices? In which case I think the majority here sound like they are supportive of their children regardless of career choice and gender. You also seem to lack knowledge of the nursing profession. And I ask again what you're basing your views on?

PurpleTrilby · 13/11/2018 16:47

General point, which I think applies to a lot of discussions about certain studies being perceived as 'pointless'. There's no such thing as pointless learning, whatever you study it rewires the brain, it's inherently a good thing. I've studied languages I hardly need to use, for my own enjoyment, for instance. It's quite sad that people only see value in hard sciences over humanities, or what will get a high paying job, rather than one that's enjoyed.

CrabbyPatty · 13/11/2018 16:51

Ahh... Makes more sense now. You had a choice to train as a nurse at any point though, no? I'm sorry you feel let down but pushing a child into a career they don't want can also be detrimental and being supportive also means recognising if your child us unhappy and needs support and encouragement to make changes.

Veterinari · 13/11/2018 17:01

I think you’ve chosen the wrong example to make your point crab (or you’re just being a GF...)

There’s a difference between being unsupportive of your child's Choices and pushing them towards a career that they don’t Want in order to fulfil your own ideas of what they should do.

Are you happy in your choice as a cleaner? Has it given you the flexibility/security that you needed? If not then do you want to change that? If so, You don’t need your parents’ to push you - you need to want to make that change yourself. If you never wanted to be a nurse, it’s likely you’d have found it difficult and unrewarding.

I think the point that we’re all making is that to some extent we need to respect our child’s choices and support them - even if those choices change over time

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