To ask how people afford to have a family...

[TiredMumma88]

DH and I earn £57k as a household.

Outgoings are c. £2.5k per month (household bills, travel, food and childcare).

DS is 19months old and we'd love to have another but cannot for the life of us see how we could afford it.

PILs have DS a couple of days per week while we're at work so we only currently pay for 3 days nursery, but after doing some major maths - whether I go back to work or not after we still won't have enough to pay the mortgage...

How do people do it??

Sorry forgot to say our household income in under 20k and we live quite well on this as such low out goings.

There is a huge difference in terms of net income between one earner on £57k paying 12% pension contributions, 9% student loan plus an expensive commute versus two lower rate tax payers with no student loans and no or little pension savings.

On the childcare issue:

If DC1 is 19 months now, and you got pregnant, they'd be 28 months by the time DC2 is born, and 8 months later would be eligible for 30 hours free childcare age 3. Especially if PIL takes DC1 occasionally, that should cover them full time for free.
In the 8 months in between, you could be on Mat leave with DC2, and so save on the childcare costs there.

Now seems like great timing!

People or you? Because people use all kinds of tactics, lots of which won't be relevant in your circumstances.

In your case, two suggestions spring to mind. One, where is all your money going? It would be useful to have more information but it sounds like you should have over a grand spare a month.

Second, if time isn't of the essence, wait until your older child is eligible for free childcare. Or even in school. This isn't actually as far away as it might sound. If your eldest is 19 months old, they were born spring 2017 so will get the free hours in either April or September 2020. Depending on their DOB, you might only need to delay TTC for a few months to be sure of your eldest being age eligible for at least some free childcare once a second child comes along.

I agree with others that it's not always ideal to take the older DC out of childcare to be at home with you on ML, but depending on timing, you could potentially reduce their hours to the 15 or 30 hours free entitlement, depending on what you can access in your area.

If it's a genuinely low salary with several children, then there are usually some top up benefits involved. Although it can still not be a great deal to live on, even factoring those in.

With an income of £57k I suspect it is not so much a case of not being able to afford it so much as not wanting to reduce your standard of living sufficiently to afford it.

Life is about choices, do I want to continue shopping at waitrose or am I prepared to manage at Aldi, am I happy with a single self catering holiday rather than an all inclusive cruise and several mini breaks, do I need such an extensive wardrobe or can I manage with a few staples, do I need the latest iphone upgrade every year.

If you want a second child badly enough, you will find a way to afford one by compromising on other areas.

Why would one start a thread like this, then not return?

You have 1k a month after Hills and childcare.

Given childcare for child 2 won't be near that, you can afford a second one.

If you haven't kept baby stuff from child one you can buy it fairly inexpensively 2nd hand. Nursery fees once eldest is 3 then in scho will balance childcare for child 2. You cut down on luxuries and lifestyle choices.

Your older child will be entitled to some free childcare by the time you go back to work with a second. We waited until ds1 was at school before having ds2 - that's how we afforded it. Only ever claimed CB and we earn WAY below your combined wage

3 year gap here. Reduced dc1 down to 3 days per week once dc2 arrived, so termtime costs were almost free. Holiday care was optional. Dc1 started school 6 weeks after I went back to work so only that time of 2 x childcare. No family help at all other than odd days (but not consistent so couldn’t reduce childcare). Went interest only on mortgage while in maternity leave and reviewed direct debits especially various charity once that had built up over the years. Lots of hand me downs and charity shop purchases. Cheap days out with kids - park, library, free local museum.
Had also worked FT between dc1 and dc2 so maternity pay was better than if had been part time.

Space your children (gap of at least 3 years). That way one will be getting free nursery hours/be at school when you need the most childcare for the second. Save up now to give yourselves a financial cushion for when no. 2 arrives. Other than that, you need to cut down/back on other costs.

Your outgoings are far too high- that’s the only reason you can’t afford to expand your family.

I’m sure to many families you earn very well in contrast and they would love your income!

DP and I earn six figures (just) and are about to marry/start a family. Our outgoings are £1750 a month and we own a mid sized 3bed terrace home in a desirable up market city.

We (especially now) feel a lot of external pressure to move to a larger home in one of the trendy suburbs (and double/triple out mortgage) and upgrade our cars...etc. We’ve even been asked (a few times now) if we’ll be private schooling 🙈🤔

We’re staying put though as to do those things would raise our outgoings to easily £4000 a month. At which point we’d be left with £1500-£2000 a month free after pensions and tax...etc.

In my experience the more people earn the more people spend - you have plenty you just need to live within your means better

You control yourself - that's how.
Husband and I have been together since we were 19 and 24. Lived together from age 22 and 27. Married at 25 and 30. Only now have our first child at 32 and 37 (got pregnant with him the first month trying too so don't assume we waited because of any fertility issues). We just waited until we could afford to do things before we did them. We will also be waiting until this one is 3.5 or so before having our second child, because of the expense of childcare.

Your little one is 19 months, even if you get pregnant next month they'll be 28 months before new baby is here. Give yourself 6 months maternity and they'll be near enough qualifying for free childcare by the time you need to put two in nursery.

Our plan is to wait until about your point to have number two (number 1 isn't even here yet so it's a loose plan!) But to make it so by the time i go back from maternity, baby no1 will qualify for free childcare.

For a start we waited until DC1 was at school to have DC2. I also left a well paid but inflexible and non-family friendly job to work in a school, term time only so we don't have to pay for childcare in the holidays and have minimal wraparound care costs.

Just don’t spend as much. You do have enough to live on, even assuming your high outgoings remain the same (guessing you have a big mortgage - can’t be helped if you live in the SE - our first home was a tiny 2 up 2 down in 2005 and still cost over 1100 a month on the mortgage - the smallest, cheapest house we could find) I cried when I was pregnant with number 2 DC as I thought we would never be able to afford it, but the second one is cheap as you use all the other child’s stuff. I don’t know about free hours and stuff anymore as I think it’s all changed but sure you can work it out.
Basically, you’ll be really poor til they’re at school and you can work more hours again, but it’s worth it, and it doesn’t do you any harm to learn to spend less money!

I think you just have to prioritise what you want.
We knew we'd be a low income family and had no family to offer free childcare.
So, we provided our own free childcare as couldn't afford to pay others.
Sometimes you are better off with one family income than both working and one salary going on childcare.

There are threads exactly like this regularly. My favourite was the one in which the OP benefits bashed and then revealed that she couldn't be expected to give up her horses, which cost her £900 per month in combined costs, because she worked hard and needed (to own multiple) horses for her mental health...

It'll be your outgoings OP...

That said we sold up and moved abroad to afford dc2 with a small gap (wasn't the only reason but certainly a factor) without cutting everything to the bone and giving up anything not absolutely essential.

Very true blueskies!

Part of the reason we manage with me as a SAHM is that we deliberately moved to an area we could afford on one income before starting a family.

Apologies all - have been stuck in hospital all day with poorly DS.

£57k was before tax - things are as below per month for the house

Incoming £3200
Outgoing £2600

We have £600 a month for 'spends' and split that so we have £300 each per month. My family live down in Devon and we visit every other month at least which fuel comes out of that, birthday / Christmas presents, the odd take away, lunch at work etc.

Yes PILS currently have DS 2 days a week but once #2 arrives they have said they can't carry on as they are in their 70s and find it exhausting understandably. That would then mean both DC going to nursery full time

Similar income to you, but 3 kids who are now teenagers. I was a sahp but did evening tuition, exam marking and looked after a friend's child to earn extra money. Went back to work on youngest's first day at school and used grandparents for after school care. We are teachers, so holiday care isn't an issue. We live in the East Midlands, so mortgage etc cheap. Lift share to work. Very careful with food budget, always 2nd hand cars, no house improvements etc, but do splash out on several holidays a year.

So it's your spends then, £600 on extras is huge- pack lunches, fakeaways, token gifts and the people in Devon visiting you? You'll be fine.