To think art is a hobby not a degree choice

[smithsally884]

Dd y13 Maths probably C, physics probably B ,but shines at art and is predicted A* (94 percent share AS and coursework to be reused for a level). She is severely limited in what she can apply for because of poor predicted maths and physics . She wants to do some sort of art degree now.previously wanted to do primary ed with qts but now thinks it will be too stressful.i think she might as well burn £50k aibu?

My daughter's school gave a talk on all this. They made the point that when we at school if some one had shown us a futuristic picture of Google or Facebook's head office we wouldn't have thought that was a possible career option.
The conclusion the school speaker came up with was to let children follow their passions as parents do not know and cannot predict the jobs available even 10 years into the future.

Here's a very detailed study which does attempt to predict future jobs and skills needed though.

https://media.nesta.org.uk/documents/thefutureeofskillssemploymentinn20300.pdf

After reading this thread I do regret not following my artistic passions. I was told it was a long shot and I'm talented( boast sorry).
Trouble is, I did a btec in art and excelled in ceramics. No money in it. I don't think I would enjoy the insecurity. I recently took up painting again and tried to sell to galleries. No joy. Maybe I'm not THAT talented.
As a single mum I have bills to pay and now am studying radiography. Love it and there are jobs at the end but I do miss creativity.

I'm sure Tracey Emin agrees

smithsally884
No, it was a response to blahblahblah, hence, '@ blahblahblah' in my post.

It's funny how people assume someone (maybe more in the case of girls?) is pushed to do maths or physics or any of the hard sciences..

My DD1 was a maths/art girl. She double majored in Econ and Fine Arts. She was en route to a degree in architecture when the financial crash happened but was able to change course. Her career is in Econ but she has a nice side business going in design.

Malificent - one of DD3's friends did ceramics in university (US) and works for NASA. Some of that student's friends in her ceramics course work for a major US bathroom fixture company.

Also, Malificent, sell online. Use all the SM available.

Make sure you copyright.

I really don't know where you get the idea that C in Maths and B in physics are 'poor predicted grades' ! Except perhaps , you have spent too much time spent on MN higher ed topic where EVERY poster is the parent of an Oxbridge child genius. (It's not real you know !).

My DD is on track for a first In Psychology from a good University, Not because she's a genius but because she works really hard and most importantly is INTERESTED in the subject. Her entry grades were Photography A, Psychology B , Maths C. She had offers from Newcastle, Liverpool, Sussex & UEA. All respected research Universities. More importantly she has a job offer on a graduate programme in a related field . What more could those 'poor grades' have achieved ?

But here's an idea. If you can't be supportive ... As she is/is nearly an Adult, let her decide her future based on her skill set and interests.

Ds3’s (state) school philosophy is around encouraging art & creative thinking. See if you can watch ‘most likely to succeed’ about the future of education. It’s the opposite of a Govian wet dream.

I’d encourage her to look into the huge range of art related options. These could be very traditional fine art - or as others have suggested computer games design/animation. Maybe architecture. Filmmaking, video design. Big opportunities to develop artistic skills in a specialist way. Probably for careers you have never heard of.
If

If she’s unsure a year’s art foundation may be a good thing to think about. It’s funded I think (check that though!) and is a good basis for lots of different creative degrees/careers. Just gives students more time to explore options.

But for gods sake don’t tell her art is a waste of time & send her off to do something she hates.

My son did an art degree with a view to going into animation but is now digital advertising manager for a newspaper.

YABVVU.

There are loads of jobs you can get with an arts degree. It really doesn't mean she won't be employable! If you're worried, do some research. Look at creative industry to get an idea of the things she could do.

I'm thinking games design, graphic design, digital design, product design, fashion design... etc etc. There'll be more, I just need my wake up tea to think about it.

Don't set your child up to fail by not allowing her to do something she clearly excels in and enjoys.

Malificent selling to galleries possibly requires some kind of buzz to make it worth their while - AFAIK. I would look at design fairs etc local or regional, set up a pitch and you’ll hopefully sell and also get your creative outlet - all whilst meeting other creatives. I buy lots at art and illustration fairs, they sell their work very cheaply but get tonnes of exposure. Anyone I’ve bought from and then started following on Instagram, has gone on to get interesting commissions and grown a following.

FWIW my husband has a business degree and doesn’t need or use it for his work. He made tonnes of really great friends at Uni so doesn’t regret it, but it wasn’t what he wanted really. He was just keeping his parents happy. All types of degree could theoretically become a “waste” if you don’t love the subject and can’t face doing it as a career. On the other hand, I’ve got no degree, went to work from 15 and worked my way up into my own niche category and get offers for freelance work every day. I have very flexible working hours, absolutely love what I do, comfortable financially etc etc..... oh, and I’m in the middle of an art degree (distance learning), for pleasure!

I will encourage my own children to do what they love. If they don’t love it then it’ll be wasted either way.

If you are teaching your children to base all their life decisions on what is going to earn them the most money then you are very badly letting your children down.

Happiness should always be a much larger factor in decisions than money....simple as.

Time to step out of her siblings and parents shadow. Enthusiastically support it OP and she will probably panic and change her mind .

I actually think she should do Art though.

A boy who was in my class at school left with no qualifications & did a series of ordinary jobs, postman, shelf stacked in a supermarket, he had always loved art & started painting at home on hardboard using matchpots of emulsion, his pictures were all about his childhood & the city he grew up in, he started to sell his paintings at art fairs & he got noticed. He was able to give up his job & has done work for Paul Smith, Noel Gallagher, Paul Weller amongst others, he now owns his own gallery, has sold out exhibitions in his hometown of Sheffield & London, he employs several family members & other staff, this week he got a Doctor of Arts honorary degree from his hometown university, look up Pete McKee, art is not a wasted subject, if your child is passionate about her subject, let her follow her passion, better to do something you love than be stuck in a job you hate for the rest of your life.

@mathanxiety no. I understand UK university rankings and and the UK graduate labour market... Probably better than most as it forms a huge part of my research and my teaching. I seem to remember that you believed that a degree from a non RG university was pretty much worthless. Which, quite frankly, is the very definition of university snobbery.

My mum was a professional artist selling her works via local galleries, my uncle (on my dad’s side) is a sculptor ( the kind that does commissions for public and civic artworks). Both made/make a good living and have good lives (plenty of time at home whilst kids growing up etc).

People do make lives out of art beyond being struggling artists in a garret.

That’s before you even go into “jobs that involve art”. There are loads of art therapists and art teachers for example. If she’s thought of being a teacher before, she could easily do an art degree and then a teaching conversion.

If you are teaching your children to base all their life decisions on what is going to earn them the most money then you are very badly letting your children down.

But lon term happiness miht not be best served by doin a degree and not bein able to get a job in your chosen area and ending up in a minimum wage unskilled job and bgi debt

Career decisions should not be made on salary alone.

Plus no degree will guarantee you a job. Graduates from art/creative degrees are not more likely to be unemployed. Graduate labour market information for 2017 ( which is the most recent we have) shows employment increased by 1.3% and shows figures that are comparable to other subjects.

moredoll I didn't realise the Art Foundation year was still funded for under 19! A year in Camberwell (or somewhere as reputable) for free? No brainer!

Reposting link:
www.arts.ac.uk/subjects/3d-design-and-product-design/pre-degree-courses/foundation-diploma-in-art-and-design-camberwell

@smithsally84 Please consider suggesting a Foundation Diploma to your daughter. It is one year, then she can apply to degree courses.

It is entirely possible to do an Art Foundation year, then apply to a STEM degree, one year older, more confident, and having a portfolio under your belt to explore creative options that combine your arts and STEM background later. If you're worried about her ending up without a job in her chosen area, then delaying final choice of degree for a year will help her confidence and help her decide she's on the right path. And a STEM degree will seem like a breeze after a arts Foundation year of very very hard work!

And the top destinations of graduates from these degrees are art, design and creative jobs.

Basecamp65 Bollocks total bollocks, you may have read my post about my own DS maybe you are alluding to it, do you not realise that one of the greatest problems that young people face today is low wages and high cost of living, how many articles have you read about young people not being able to buy their own homes whilst paying sky high rents, or unable to get jobs in the first place.

Yes its about money in my DS case, money that his two companies generates to pay the wages of 25 people decent wages not min wage,money that allows him and his young family (baby no 2 on the way) to have a good standard of living, and yes although it may seem 'unfashionable' to say having an income on which he pays HRT so puts back a lot into this country.

You think I let my DS down by letting him make his own decision because having a dad in the industry and a mum in an allied profession he realised himself that he would struggle to carve out a good career, he knew about designer friends we had in the early 2000s who had been made redundant and were struggling to find work even then and he was realistic enough to know it wouldn't get any better.

I haven't let my DS down and to say I have is offensive.

I still resent my parents not allowing me to do art. I wanted to go into what was then called 'computer graphics' and is now CGI - yep no future in that then.

I had a good career but became disabled and went to uni, by then I couldn't do art because of my disabilities.

You can pick up STEM subjects at any time.

You can also combine subjects.

I HATE the 'science is better than art' it isn't true. Everything in your hoe and your home has been designed by someone. The clothes you wear have all been designed.

When you hear the name Leonardo Da Vinci what do you think of first? I bet it isn't his inventions.

I think she should do what interests her rather than what other people think is right for her. If she is genuinely good at art and enjoys it, she will earn greater money than anyone whose parents pushed them into professions they don't like.

Also if she already knows what she wants to do, it's a big plus as well. My son is 17. He got an A* in his Physics GCSE but he tells me that just because he is good at it doesn't mean he enjoys it and he has no clue what he wants to study at uni. This is a huge dilemma for parents too, and I must say I'd love it if he had a clear idea of what he wanted to do.

I think doing the art foundation year is a no-brainer. It is free apart from the travel which will be difficult and expensive but hopefully she will be able to drive by then

It then gives her some idea and experiences about studyin art at uni, and she will be able to apply with actual grades to whatever she chooses.