To think if you put your style choices above customer comfort your business is going to fail?

[BluthsFrozenBananas]

It’s a tough market right now, so why do new businesses, especially restaurants and cafes, do this?

I went to a new cafe in town yesterday with DH and DD. It’s been open a couple of weeks and what I assume where the owners were in there, three rather earnest hipsterish blokes. The food was pretty good and a decent price, but the style choices that had been made ensured I’d probably never go back.

All hot drinks were served in tin mugs, my tea caused the mug to heat up so much the handle was too hot to hold and the rim burnt my lips. I asked for a china mug, to be told they only had tin ones, but they’d make me another tea. So I got a second tea pot full of Luke warm water, which wasn’t hot enough to actually brew the tea properly.

Alongside this the tables were very small and designed with legs shaped liked an inverted v. This meant that the tops of the table legs dug into the thighs of any adult sitting at them. I’ll be the first to admit I haven’t got the thinnest of legs, but looking around the cafe I could see most of the adults were either sitting awkwardly far from the tables or had pulled their chairs around to the corner of the table so they could sit in comfort.

On the way out one of the earnest hipsters asked me if I’d be coming back, I told him I would if they got some china mugs, he gave me a look. I’m not going to take to trip advisor and slag the place off, but I probably won’t bother to go back either.

It was the similar with the posh burger place which opened up near me, and recently closed. Although with them it was the menu which was the issue. They had lots of fancy pants and frankly odd burgers on their menu, but not a single plain one. The plainest was bacon and cheese, and the only way to get a plain burger was to ask for bacon and cheese without the bacon and cheese, but you were still paying for them.

TLDR, hipsterish notions aren’t great for long term business success.

My number one annoyance in restaurants and cafes is when they have bloody uncomfortable chairs. I'm not going to linger on and have three courses if my arse has gone to sleep because it's parked on a wooden bench! What's wrong with comfy chairs with cushions?

Omg this is so true! We have a "unit" near us that is fitted out for catering businesses and is regularly taken over by new owners (who soon go out of business)- who proceed to:

Not have a menu that will sell to the market they have available here to them (mainly oaps and single mums) - seriously, this is not an avocado on toast, pan fried scallops area! But do a good variety of basic lunch items and afternoon tea type offerings and you'd be onto a winner!

Overprice themselves (deprived area, people round here don't HAVE a lot of money so charging double what Costa does for smaller servings of poorer quality products isn't going to fly).

Have "decor" that customers can't get on with including migraine inducing lighting, cutlery that's hard to use, plates too big for the tables provided...

If I had the money (and the health) I'd open a traditional tea room, with appropriate decor, serve good traditional late breakfast & lunch items, tea in pots (China not those awful leaky stainless steel monstrosities), home made ice cream (inc sundaes etc) in the summer, home made soup and hot chocolates in the winter. I reckon it would be successful.

Agree op - being "trendy" is not a recipe for long term success. It might get them customers initially from novelty value but it's repeat custom a business like this depends on.

"It's not just food places. There are so many shops that are all about the owner's dream to have a particular type of uber stylish shop" my mum calls these "hobby shops" the owners are usually wives of very high earners so they don't actually need the money. We've a couple near us that can't POSSIBLY be making money as there's sod all customers ever even in them let alone buying anything! But... The owners are from a VERY affluent area nearby and their husbands very high earning.

We had one local "greasy spoon" place that was very successful and very well known locally for DECADES, owner sold to retire, new person kept it as it was first few months...then they ruined it! They stopped doing jacket potatoes, stopped doing full fried breakfasts, stopped doing hot rolls and instead offered fancy porridges, omelettes, fancy sandwiches... Went bust in less than 6 months. Previous owner reportedly heartbroken!

Always start with the market, always.

Harris and Hoole tried this on a mainstream level in Tesco branches, I stopped getting coffee there as I was fed up with lukewarm coffee and the accompanying earnest lecture about how their milk wasn’t hot so it. didn’t interfere with taste of coffee.
I switched to tea instead and stopped going altogether when the young person serving lectured me about how long to leave the tea bag in for.
I’m in my 50s. I think I know how to brew a cup of tea to my own taste.

Cocktails in teapots, drinks in jam jars and your steak on a slate? ..
At grossly elevated prices and that's not counting the low paid staff. It will never work on any level. These places are financed by other people who have money falling off trees and small investors lose everything.
Not for me anyway.

I went into a big chain bar the other day. This place is well known for its 'creative' drinks. We only went because it was quite empty and we wanted a seat. I went to the bar and asked for a cider and all they had was stubby cans or fruity cider. No just normal cider

I agree with you OP. DH and I once went to a local, small, family run French restaurant that was rated so highly by many friends. Our table was so small it could only fit our dinner plates, water glass, wine glass - but nothing else could fit, no wine bottle, salt/pepper, water bottle, candle nor flower etc could fit. Average size plates. Vegetable dish couldn’t fit (French style of serving veg) so waitress handed to us to put on our dinner plate and hand veg plate back to her. The table was so close to other tables we couldn’t carry on our own conversation due to noise. We ate so quickly just to get out of there (other diners had to stand to allow us to pass, that’s how close it was). Food was actually good but we would never go back as the experience was so far from a pleasant meal out.

I'm sure this all started years ago when Italian restaurants competed with each other to have the biggest black pepper grinder that was ceremonially brought to the table.

Just give me black pepper on the table please. I don't want to sit there squirming while someone does it for me and I have to keep begging "just a bit more, yes please, a bit more".

I went to an Indian Street Food place (chain) and I asked for a glass instead of the metal cup for the tap water after I'd tried it.

I got a rude lecture (so bloody rude the way it was said) about how only x % of the population can taste the metal flavour - well erm yes that's why I politely asked for glass instead because I'm one of that x % and can't bear to drink out of a can because it tastes so foul!

I mean wtf? My friend was at how rude he was clearly it would be ruining my authentic experience or some atrocity!

Our local independent coffee shop has it spot on.

This area is predominantly families, with a smattering of students and hipsters. So the coffee shop / cafe caters for its core market with decent homemade food and coffee in a ceramic mug. They also cater for the hipsters with their vegan sausages and black pudding and single origins coffee and weird flapjack things made from seeds.

Writer Jenny Colgan posted this on twitter yesterday, a shot through the window of a cafe she walked past.

Wow swings + hot drinks

That wont go wrong at all

I think people (millennials in particular) are increasingly wanting these types of experiences when they go out. It's no longer just about having a nice meal, it's all about the brand, the senses etc.

Where I think businesses get it wrong is going for style over substance. So, they focus on the wankery (tin cups, tile plates and exposed brick work) at the expense of the basics (good food, comfortable chairs etc).

The hipster movement here in Melbourne is huge- and very funny. Deconstructed is the way. So deconstructed avocado and egg on toast- all cones seperate and you put it 'together' yourself- and pay for it! Also coffee comes in three wee beakers and you put it in the cup yourself. It's like the emperors new clothes. I laugh from the outside and wait for the rest to catch up.

Swings?

Hahahahaha!

Where's H&S when you need them?

I'm now at the stage of saying, when I order, that I want my food on a plate. Not a basket, not a slate. A plate. I also say I will send it back if it doesn't come on the asked for plate. Pubs with their wanky brioche buns for burgers can also fuck themselves.

Who TF thought swings and hot drinks were a good idea?

I think this is the first generation to be opening businesses who are digital natives and they're actually confusing the real-life customers who will walk into your shop and spend money with the digital customers who will 'buy in' to your brand by flinging you a few likes on insta.

Only one of these groups of customers will make you money, of course. They'll learn.

Pubs with their wanky brioche buns for burgers

I quite like a brioche bun. But I want my burger on a plate. Not on a slate, or "deconstructed", or with the chips in some silly extra container which takes up even more room on the table. And leave the fecking pickles off.

There is a very funny website called We Want Plates where people post pics of the silly ways they've been served food.

wewantplates.com/

^ enjoy

Meanwhile, I had to ask for a tea bag to go back in a pot of tea last week. I don't care if the optimum brewing time is 4 minutes!

YADNBU, OP. One of the most successful local businesses I know that has launched over the last few years is a retro-style independent cinema. Old fashioned seats but with modern comforts like aircon, cheap snacks and drinks in a proper china mug! The tickets are cheaper than the local multiplex and it's a lovely place - people buy more snacks as well because they are cheaper, I never buy anything to eat at a multiplex but I always do there. And a big mug of coffee, freshly made. Still spend way less than two tickets alone at the bigname multiplex nearby.

Swings - WTF! That is all kinds of wrong! Even with a cold drink it's not going to work well.

A little internet research shows that the swing place is one of a chain of indian food restaurants and that there is some slight tethering under the swing but it could still move a bit. I'd avoid it, personally!

I wouldn't mind if there was an alternative to the brioche buns (ie plain buns) but I end up having to say "no bun" cos I know I won't eat it, but I'm still charged for the wanking thing. I'd take a plain bun if I had the choice though...

I'm off to look at that website, thanks!

On my high street there is a Costa and two independent coffee shops run by lovely earnest types.

Shop A makes lovely coffee and great food but has only 4 tables of which only one has comfy chairs, so if that table is taken you have to perch on a really uncomfortable tiny wooden stool. It's also almost £4 for a flat white and takes ages to make. Open Tues - Sat 8-5.

Shop B makes excellent but excruciatingly slow coffee and great food but they never have much out, they say they will make anything for you from scratch but then you have to wait around. The lighting is too bright and institutional and the walls have blown up generic photos of sandwiches, coffee, etc. No atmosphere. Open Mon-Fri 10-5.

Costa is open 6am - 7pm 7 days a week, makes coffee and food lightning quick, flat white for £2 and has huge squashy sofas and space for pushchairs. The baristas have all been there for years, know everyone by name, their regular orders, and are part of the community. It's a franchise owned by a woman who lives around here whose kids are at the local school.

I wish the two indies would learn from Costa, but I fear they are wedded to what they want to do rather than what sells. I want to patronise them more, but they are both uncomfortable, expensive and never seem to be open when I want to go!

Agreed, I was in my town last week and wanted a coffee
Instead of the usual Costa I went into an independent.
I wet up to the counter and they told me to go and sit down so I did. They then asked me to sit somewhere else, so I did
They didn’t take my order for 5 minutes and weren’t sure of what cakes they had so suggested I go to the counter for a look, again I did.
The coffee was nice but more expensive and smaller than the ones in Costa and it took me nearly 20 minutes to get it.
We do have a couple of amazing independent coffee places in town luckily but the one I went to reminded me of why Costa and the like are generally easier.

There is a lovely independent cafe near us. The food is great, good coffee and homemade cakes. Area with a lot of families. We have gone there since having twins because they have wedged I so many tables we can't fit the buggy in and they only have 1 highchair available in the entire cafe. They would do so well during the week if it was easier to take small children in. The actually have a lovely children's menu that isn't just sausage and chips but it only seems to do well at the weekend when it's full of couples with no kids.

@BluthsFrozenBananas Is this in TW by any chance?