Neighbour wanting to put a balcony in their loft conversion (terraced house)

[Cinnabunbun]

Would you object to planning permission if your neighbour's loft conversion plans included a patio balcony?

I live in a standard London terrace of Edwardian/Late Victorian terraced houses. The house next door is already converted into 2 flats. The owners of the first floor flat want to convert their loft which of course we have no problem with. About half the lofts in our street are converted already with the usual dormer box shape.

None of the other loft conversions around here have balconies. Is this because planning permission for balconies is tricky to get? I'm worried that it may make our garden feel more overlooked. Having an outdoor social space at loft level feels different to just having a massive glass window somehow.

The current neighbours are a lovely quiet couple so I wouldn't feel worried about them. It's more the unknown future tenants. I imagine it would feel horrible to have smokers sitting out there. It would definitely make our garden feel less private if their balcony was used as an outdoor social space.

AIBU?

It couldn't be that big surely? But yes I think I would object, very different having a velux style window to a balcony.

Also, I totally get how nice it would be for them to have some kind of outside space as theirs is an upstairs flat. As well as causing awkwardness, I worry that any objection to their plans might make them more likely to object to any future building plans we have. We are planning on doing the permitted development ground floor and loft (without balcony) next year

It will be used as a social space.

You can object. But you probably shouldn’t. You want your outdoor space - so do they!

From the plans, it looks big enough for a small table and chairs and some plant pots. They are trying to sell it to the council planners as a way of greening the environment

It wouldn't bother me, tbh. How much would they actually use it when you're in your garden?

I would point out that if you do object, that your neighbours will be able to read what you've said, so say nothing that you wouldn't be happy to say to them directly. I say this as our neighbours objected to our plans, which was fine, but they really tried to stitch us up. They were very two-faced about it. They were unsuccessful, but we read their (extensive) letter, and that created a bit of bad feeling.

I think it would be nice for them to have a little outdoor area.

If they are sitting on chairs etc I doubt they will be trying to see what you do in your garden with a pair of binoculars etc

With the current neighbours I can see it working just fine. It's the longer term potential that I'm worried about I suppose. Houses around here are frequently converted into HMOs and totally over-occupied. So it is pretty common for a large family or group to be in a one bedroom flat

Yes, I would object. A planning proposal at the end of my garden included a first floor balcony and patio area (converting a bungalow) and it was rejected as the adjacent houses objected. The revised application has no balcony and privacy screens on either side of the patio.

I didn't object to the original after much thought but had planned to plant tall plants to minimise privacy issues.

You want your outdoor space - so do they!

You can't always have what you want though and a lack of outdoor space is one of the obvious downsides of an upper floor flat.

Could you ask for them to put some sort of permanent screen at the end of the balcony that would stop them overlooking your garden?

Hmm i think yabu. Juliet balconies are the standard conversion round my way (velux far too small). A small balcony isnt that different to a juliet

No I wouldn't object, I've seen that done and it looks lovely.

I think you’re being a bit selfish. It’s their home too.

Why not suggest wicker screening at the end of the patio? I doubt they want to be on stage any more than you want to be the audience.

I don't think it's selfish to have concerns about noise and privacy. As I said, with the current occupants, I don't really have concerns about how they would use the space. Unless they left their dogs out there yapping at everything that moved.

I'd feel completely different about 4 noisy blokes boozing and smoking all day out there.

Also, if you buy a first floor flat, not having any outside space is a known down side. It's not my selfishness!

A friend mentioned the possibility of suggesting a design change rather than objecting. Apparently you can ask for a full height glass perimeter on the balcony so that they still have outside space, but sound is directed upwards rather than outwards. Has anyone seen this before?

I'd object.your reasons are valid.

If you buy a first floor flat, it might have been all you can afford on the market. Sometimes you have to take what you can get.

I don’t see any difference in privacy between a balcony overlooking and windows overlooking, or between the noise from people a balcony and the noise from people in other gardens. You are being U, as well as somewhat selfish to stop others having what you have, because it doesn’t suit you.

I don’t really understand why them smoking 2 floors above you and a few metres to the side would affect you - the smell would be blown away before it reached you.

I'd object as the balcony would overlook my garden. Most people would, I'd have thought.

DD has a first floor flat where the previous owner had converted the loft to create what is now her bedroom - there is a small balcony - probably around 1.5 mts. x 1.5 mts. but the surrounding glass is frosted, and up to around 1500mm high, so you are not impacting people's privacy.

Could that be a solution/suggestion?

I don't think I'd object, because infant really see the difference between a large window/Juliet balcony/actual balcony in terms of being overlooked. Pragmatically if you object they almost certainly will to yours so what matters more?

If they are changing it then presumably they are owners so will be there a while? On that basis i wouldnt worry too much about future occupants and arguably they'll stay longer if they adapt or extend?

I'd speak to them about privacy measures for both of you but I think a full glass perimeter is probably a bit unreasonable, it isn't a balcony then is it?

My first thought was outright yes to object but after reading pp I'm not sure how bad it would be. It's like on holiday when you have a balcony.

Also I'm sure I've seen new builds where they don't have balcony but they do have railings around an external door on the first floor. Can you not suggest something like that if you do object?

I would object purely on the grounds of being overlooked. You need to think of your privacy and re-sale value. Don't let possible objections about future developments of your own sway you, they will be allowed/not allowed on merit.

I can’t see the issue either.
What do you think will happen with a balcony that small? That they would be sitting there staring at your flat from above? They couod easily do that with an armchair next to their window. With the added advantage they wouod be warm!

I think this is a case of ‘feeling’ your pricavy might be invaded rather than your privacy really been invaded iyswim

You couod Get 4 noisy blokes boozing and smoking all day in your next door garden too.
Would you stop someone to have a garden on that ground too? Or ask them to put screen all around their garden to block the noise?
Or to close the windows when they have friends around so you can’t hear any noise from yoUr garden?

The reality is that, when you have close neighbours, you also have the risk of having difficult neighbours. Balcony or not.