Neighbour wanting to put a balcony in their loft conversion (terraced house)

[Cinnabunbun]

Would you object to planning permission if your neighbour's loft conversion plans included a patio balcony?

I live in a standard London terrace of Edwardian/Late Victorian terraced houses. The house next door is already converted into 2 flats. The owners of the first floor flat want to convert their loft which of course we have no problem with. About half the lofts in our street are converted already with the usual dormer box shape.

None of the other loft conversions around here have balconies. Is this because planning permission for balconies is tricky to get? I'm worried that it may make our garden feel more overlooked. Having an outdoor social space at loft level feels different to just having a massive glass window somehow.

The current neighbours are a lovely quiet couple so I wouldn't feel worried about them. It's more the unknown future tenants. I imagine it would feel horrible to have smokers sitting out there. It would definitely make our garden feel less private if their balcony was used as an outdoor social space.

AIBU?

OP not OK

I would object. We are in a similar position now with neighbours because we’ll be overlooked and crowded.

Given the fact the balcony sounds like it is the size of a postage stamp and the fact that the Uk weather is nice enough to enjoy a balcony on about 2 days of the year, I wouldn't object.

must be a bloody big postage stamp if it's "big enough for a small table and chairs and some plant pots."

MrBirlings
We live in our own home - which we like and can afford.
My DC live in flats in terraced houses in London, with the compromises this brings. Of course, there is potential for disturbance from children/teenagers/adults from a balcony, just as there is from a garden. But most people try and get on with their neighbours - although sadly there are exceptions. As long as we respect each other, there shouldn't be a problem.

can't really see the difference between a large window/Juliet balcony/actual balcony in terms of being overlooked

Of COURSE there's a difference. People generally don't sit right up at their windows looking out.

A large balcony - big enough for a table and chairs - is being specifically designed as an outdoor seating area. Totally different to having people walking past a window or glancing out, OP can reasonably expect that her neighbours will be sitting up there and she will be overlooked.

Also cannot believe that some posters seem to think there's an entitlement to outside space when you have a first floor flat! If you want outdoor space, buy a ground floor flat. Or go and sit in the park.

I'd object. I'd be concerned about people sitting on it late at night talking noisily and that chatter being audible while im trying to sleep.

Plans round here were rejected for those reasons. They built a massive balcony in top of the new extension roof anyway but a neighbour spotted it and the council stopped them before it was complete and made them put it back to a juliet, which was what was agreed in the plans. The extension roof looks very odd because they never put it right so there's a flat roof in the middle.

We sought a certificate of permitted development for a loft extension with rear dormer. Ours is a semi detached house (all one property) with a garden - and which already has a balcony at the front! The neighbours haven’t had their loft done so the dormer wouldn’t be next to their bedroom.

Anyway we raised the possibility of a balcony as part of the dormer - so if we wanted we could open the bedroom doors and have plants out there etc. Clearly not likely to be used as an entertaining space given that the house has a garden. Our architect fell about laughing and said we would still never get permission - and when we vaguely mentioned it to the neighbours they were very down on the idea so we never pursued it.

We haven’t lain awake at nights hating the neighbours though - it’s just what planning permission involves. People are allowed to object. I would object if you don’t want it - you won’t be the only one!

My DC live in flats in terraced houses in London, with the compromises this brings.

OP lives in a terraced house and has clearly managed the "compromises" required. However, the addition of a balcony next door is pushing the level of "compromise" significantly.

I would turn your argument round, ajandjjmum and apply it to the neighbour. They are the ones stepping outside the generally agreed boundaries of the neighbourhood by wanting a balcony.

You said We live in our own home - which we like and can afford. Why do you not apply that to the neighbour? They want something that is not typical of the area but presumably can't afford to buy in an area where there are properties with outdoor space. I think they are the ones who should think about getting along with their neighbours

soupdragon it's hardly a sofa and it a dining table though is it? If it can only fit two chairs and a table and two pots??

Which to my mind also greatly reduces the chances of noise everyone seems so worried about. Two people at a bistro type table versus an enormous table having a dinner party is a very different scenario.

If you don't like the idea then object. But, as other ppl have said, make sure you are objecting on valid grounds. It's not your responsibility to suggest alternatives or worry about the neighbours' living conditions. If they object to your future plans, their objections will only be successful if they have valid grounds. You could drop them a note, sorry we are objecting because we are worried about being overlooked, hope you can find a good compromise or similar

And I say that as someone with a balcony that's about 3 foot wide by 8 foot long.it also fits a table, 2 chairs and some nice pots.

I consider it extremely small and definitely not big enough to host hordes of noisy people..

The size wouldn't make that much difference to me. It could be a single chair on a balcony but if the person sat on it was looking down into my garden it would affect my use of my garden.

My place has a balcony. It could fit a table and 2 chairs and still have some space.
Take away the furniture and we can have several people standing on the balcony. Which we have done several times when having parties and I don't want people smoking indoors.
My balcony is used a lot, much more than those with gardens downstairs. I like to sit out there and drink my coffee. `i like to sit out there and study/read as it's a nice space to be in. The only times it really doesn't get used is when it's bitterly cold or raining.
So those saying oh it will hardly get used, the neighbours could be like me and use the balcony in the same way we would if we had a garden (unless you are my neighbours who never use their gardens).

Having done a loft conversion on our former first-floor, London, Victorian terrace flat, I'd be amazed if they get planning permission for a balcony that fits seating. We could only have a Juliet one because there are really strict rules about how far out dormers can extend, so to add a balcony onto it means they may well be breaching the permitted length. If they're applying to build an actual roof terrace, that's a different matter - although, again, when it's a flat, it's harder to get permission. With a house it can be done under permitted development. Try talking to the planning dept at the council for advice.

Every local plan I have seen has some form of policy relating to new development which will state that the amenities of neighbouring properties shouldn't be harmed, or something similar. This covers, in planning terms, issues such as overlooking, loss of light, noise and disturbance, loss of privacy, any overpowering or visual dominance and loss of outlook. If the planners feel something is unacceptable, they can use a general policy such as that to refuse permission if there is not a specific policy relevant to the development. Few plans will have a separate policy dealing purely with balconies for example.

Just to update this. We had the neighbours over for coffee and talked about our concerns, explained that we would be objecting and why. It all seemed quite polite and civilised. They knew they were pushing their luck and said they had lots of other ideas but they thought they'd try the biggest one first in case it got through. They even said they were just dreaming of being able to open up the doors and let the dogs get some fresh air, and sit outside, have some plants etc etc which was a lot more honest than the green roof nonsense in the planning application.

As an aside, the public notice about the application was mysteriously moved several houses down the road instead of on the post right outside

We submitted our objection including the list of concerns from the material objections list.
Anyway... it had little impact and the council approved their plans with a clause in the informatives saying that the area was not to be used for sitting out.

As far as I can tell that kind of clause means nothing and who would enforce it anyway given the cuts/priorities of local councils these days?

Once the balcony is built, even if they had day long bbqs out there, I can't see how we could change the situation. We'll just have to hope for the best and suck it up.

Things are still very polite and friendly with the neighbours. The work is currently in progress and seems so much bigger and more intrusive now that it is almost physically built. Hey ho.. I'll just have to get over it

Balconies not allowed round here for that very reason. No harm in raising your concerns about privacy.