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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

In being incredibly annoyed with dd's nursery?

77 replies

silverfrog · 18/06/2007 21:03

This could end up being very long and ranty, so apologies in advance. DD is nearly 3, and goes to nursery 3 mornings a week. She has recently been diagnosed as ASD (but we have known for ages, the dx was a formality, and we told the nursery when we went for an open day and asked if they could cope). She is bright and funny, making great headway with language (her biggest problem, but she is improving steadily) and loves puzzles, colours and numbers and singing. She does not like play-doh, and is beginning to be interested in painting.

Dd can be difficult to cope with - she is, after all, 2 - but she is not impossible to manage, nor is she impossible to engage with or settle down to things.

Since dd moved out of the baby room last October (we didn't think she was ready, and had a meeting with the nursery to discuss where they assured us she was) we have been less and less happy with various issues. Dd took a long time to adjust to the new staff dealing with her (but we had stuff going on at home as well so was hard to tell what was affecting her) but I just don't feel that the staff have got the measure of her at all.

Dd's paed recently asked for a report from the nursery to supplement her developmental assessment. We relayed the request, and nothing happened. I chased it up, and nothing happened. 6 weeks later, and this is what was sent (I had to push to get a copy as was originally told to get a copy off the paed ):

"XXXX has made some progress in some areas. She is still very repetitive, and has her rituals. Instead of lying by the door rolling around, she will now occasionally stand near an activity. She likes to throw toys on the floor but with guidance she will now put bricks back into the box.

XXXX still gets up from the lunch table and will not sit with the other children during story time or registration. She will occasionally concentrate on what staff are asking her to do.

XXXX shows no signs of wanting to join in with her peers in any activity, but she will go to a known member of staff and join in with an activity on a one-to-one basis.

We have recently introduced potty training although with little success. She has no understanding of why she has been sat on the potty.

Before the birth of her baby sister, XXXX would on occasion try and converse with the staff, although since the birth this has stopped."

I am, quite frankly shocked by the report. Whenever I pick her up, I ask how the morning has gone and invariably get told "she's been fine". The report written for the paed does not describe a child who is fine .

Dd does not lie on the floor rolling around unless extremely bored, will do almost anything to get someone to read a story, can certainly do more with bricks than just put them in the box, and is never quiet for a minute at home. Putting aside the fact that all children behave differently at nursery than they do at home, I find it very hard to believe that that report was written about my daughter.

We wrote to the nursery last week as dd had been awarded funds for an additional support worker which the nursery has done nothing about, and have since heard that they intend to do nothing as dd is leaving at the end of August (they have had the funds since April so dd will hae missed out on 5 months of extra help by that time).

We have not been told that she has stopped communicating with staff, nor that she was still getting up from lunch continually (she used to do this, then we were told that she had improved vastly after working with her on this). The potty training is a whole other issue as the nursery decided themselves to start this without consulting us and now dd is just thoroughly confused, poor thing.

I have a meeting set up with the nursery next week to try to resolve some of this, and wanted to check whether IABU to be upset by any of this? I admit that I sometimes lose perspective where dd is concerned - she is little, and generally confused due to ASD and I wonder whether I am just expecting too much to be kept informed as to her progress generally, and also whether IABU to expect the nursery staff to be able to connect with her at all?

OP posts:
coppertop · 20/06/2007 17:42

No IEP.
Not listening to the SENCo.
Not providing the help they receive funding for.
Seeing something she has long been able to do as a breakthrough.

What the hell have they been doing all this time??? I don't know if the figures vary from between LEAs but ds2's pre-school receive around £60 a week to put towards paying for extra support. He doesn't have full 1:1 and the money is for the 12.5hrs a week he attends. Multiply that amount by the number of months your dd's nursery has been paid and it certainly adds up!

morocco · 20/06/2007 20:17

I also initially thought it read like a 'worst case' dla type report - perhaps they thought that was what you wanted? to gve them the benefit of the doubt?

Oblomov · 20/06/2007 20:32

No experience of ASD, but have read whole thread and very sad -
Hope you find a nice nursery / alternative solution soon.
Ds's favourite book is Gruffalo - ( I do not have it at home, kind of deliberatly) he was very pleased when he changed nursery last week and found out that the new nursery had one

silverfrog · 26/06/2007 14:21

Right am .

Had a meeting with the nursery this morning to try to resolve the issues, and its all come to nothing. They are not in the slightest bit interested in working with us to ensure dd is happy.

They said that my concerns over them starting to potty train her were unjustified, and patronisingly told me that the staff were very experienced (in fact, probably more able to tell whether dd was ready than I am! ) and so they must have been right and I am wrong.

I was also wrong to say they had mishandled the extra support funding issue too, and dd now has a worker heping her (which we knew nothing about until dd's early years SENCo told us, but I am also wrong to say that the nursery does not communicate with me)

I am wrong to be furious that they had not told me they had managed to get dd drinking (see thread in Special Needs "how do I get dd to drink?"!) - is marvellous that they have, but I have been tearing my hair out over the last few weeks, and thay didn't think to tell me that she was drinking while she was there (albeit off a spoon). They didn't actually tell me that, dd's support worker did. THey still did not concede that there was a communication issue.

They accused me of being disorganised in not telling them what to do with the extra funding (eh?) and in not helping them find an assistant for dd. And said that I shouldn't expect to have an assistant for dd as there wasn't enough money without it being topped up. When I pointed out that there was already an assistant, they said that was a miracle in itself. When I pointed out that we had already said we were prepared to top up funding, they accused us of virtual neglect of dd in not hiring her an assistant earlier, despite us not lknowing that she wasn't actually integrating. When I pointed that out they said that it was difficult to diagnose in babies, and it wasn't their job to tell me that dd was having difficulties.

There was lots more that went on (mostly along the lines of it being me that had the problem, not them) until the principal asked whether I still had confidence in them. When I said that it had been shaken by recent events, he asked how I could continue to send dd there if that was the case. Obviously wants to work things out then

I told them to expect a formal letter of withdrawal for dd, and that since they clearly couldn't cope she wouldn't be returning. And added that it would have been nice to know earlier that they were not able to cope with dd, as we probably could have worked something out. Whereupon they added that it was my job to know whether dd was coping or not, and if I was so concerned, whey hadn't I paid for a one-to-one helper from the start?!

OP posts:
NAB3 · 26/06/2007 14:23

We picked up our daughter from playschool to be told she had made no progress in the 5 months she had been there and if it carried on special needs would be brought in. She was removed immediately. Either they had been lying to us for 5 months about how she had been doing or else they were jumping in too quick with the SN. I have to do the school run in a moment but will try and come back and help later, if you want it.

Wisteria · 26/06/2007 14:30

at nursery
on your behalf
for your dd

This is appalling,, absolutely disgusting for a nursery not to keep you informed on anything which may affect your dd at home or nursery - irrespective of the special needs of your dd,
would never have happened in our nursery or any other one I have ever dealt with.

plummymummy · 26/06/2007 14:40

So shocked to read this silverfrog I can't believe their attitude when you met them to try and resolve issues I agree with Magnolia that the report was negative and did not show any positives at all, though the report is less shocking than the attitude of the Principal. I don't blame you for withdrawing your daughter.

Wisteria · 26/06/2007 14:43

I get the feeling from your post that they actually wanted you to withdraw your dd - could you write a letter to the local rag? I would...

lucyellensmum · 26/06/2007 14:52

so angry on your behalf I read threads like this and it really puts me off the whole nursery thing

silverfrog · 26/06/2007 14:53

Thanks for the replies, was beginning to think I was being an over-bearing, over protective mother. Its good to know that I haven't completely lost the plot...

I too wondered whether that was the aim, Wisteria, and wasn't much reassured when I asked the principal whether he was asking me to withdraw dd and he replied "I just don't see how you can continue to send XXXX here if you don't trust us" I was at this and asked again whether he wanted me to withdraw dd and his reply was "you must do what you think is right".

The worst of this is that dd is just the loveliest little girl ever (I know I'm biased, but still... ) she is so warm and loving, and desperately wants to be included in things. She really isn't much of a problem here at all.

I was also told that it wasn't "appropriate" for nursery children to know the difference between a square and a rhombus. Ffs. Dd is interested, so I told her what the shape was. What's so inappropriate?!

OP posts:
QueenofBleach · 26/06/2007 14:55

You need to discuss the funds as a matter of urgency and find out where they are, if school has them then they are effectively stealing from your daughter, if not then need to chase up.

lucyellensmum · 26/06/2007 14:56

good idea wisteria although i wonder if a letter to ofsted might be better placed - bastards! The nursery i mean - its hard enough being a parent as it is, dont you dare let them make you feel bad for their inadequacies (spelling). This reminds me of the incident with my father who was evicted from his care home because we complained that they werent looking after him.

silverfrog · 26/06/2007 14:59

THe funds issue is what effectively got their backs up, I think, as dh and I had written to them saying pretty much the same thing, that funds had been received, and that before we chased up what was being done, the school were being quiet about it. And that if they didn't get around to doing something with the funds then it would be a case of mis-use of public funding. (was a bit OTT but we were pissed off that nothing was being done, when dd would clearly benefit from the extra help)

They have now managed to find a support worker (despite telling us they wouldn't be bothering) so at least some of the funding has been used. I hope they will return the rest as dd will no longer be attending (and will be writing to them saying that the funds should be returned to LES)

OP posts:
edam · 26/06/2007 14:59

Jesus silverfrog, the attitude from this nursery is appalling. Do you have the energy to complain to ofsted? Because I really don't think they should get away with this.

toomanydaves · 26/06/2007 15:00

Oh god, how awful for you and your dd. They sound wildly unprofessional. It does sound as though they couldn't wait to get shot tbh and couldn't face admitting it. Unbelieivable.
YANBU in any way, about any of it.

toomanydaves · 26/06/2007 15:00

unbelievable, I meant.

toomanydaves · 26/06/2007 15:01

Oh and agree that they should be reported. Where do you live, are there any mners with AS kids near you who might know of a more sane and capable nursery?

muppetgirl · 26/06/2007 15:02

Absolutely appalled on your behalf and you must be very upset...

I haven't read all of the threaqd so apologise if I'm repeating.

I would take in a blank exercise book with ruled columns for date/home comments/nursery comments and insist they fill it in everyday. I had this with some of my children when I taught and it really helps both parties work in partnership.
If they say they don;t have time -rubbish. They need to make time especially if they are going to start potty training without you even knowing....

Wisteria · 26/06/2007 15:02

I would want to know
a) where the funds actually went that were earmarked for her care

b) what training (if any) they have actually had in difference and diversity

c) to see a copy of their policies and procedures

Then, you appear very eloquent so get it all down on paper and send a copy to your LEA, Ofsted and the paper.

It doesn't matter what they think of you, but this smacks of bullying to me (all be it in a roundabout way) and although you won't send your dd back at least you would be alerting other parents to the failure of that nursery to provide for children with special needs.

silverfrog · 26/06/2007 15:03

Am seriously considering taking it further, as it is not acceptable to be treated in this way. The nursery refused to accept that a 3 month delay in getting extra help for dd (this is 3 months after the funds cleared in their bank account) is not right .It apparently took them 7 weeks to find out what the funds were for (wtf?! took me 10 minutes (literally) on the phone) and why it took a further 4 weeks to find an assistant was not discussed.

Will talk to dh tonight, but feel that further complaint will be happening.

OP posts:
muppetgirl · 26/06/2007 15:05

Also note to all you lovely parents... ofsted has been in the past a reflection of what the school/nursery did on one day/a few days and they knew well in advance they were coming. I have known a nursery hire toys/costumes for ofsteds inspection and then send them back once it was all over.
I can't comment on inspections now as they are slightly different.
Also an inspection can be years out of date with regards to ownership, staff turnover ect.

sparklesandwine · 26/06/2007 15:31

silverfrog i haven't read all of your thread i'm afraid (lazy today ) but i think you have been treated in a terrible way and am at the lack of communication from the nursery especially in light of your DD's needs you would have thought they would be a little more communicative towards you

definatley take notes at the meeting, make sure you and DH make a list of questions you want answers to (and don't leave until you have them), take someone with you if you can a friend/relation or even see if someone from LEA can come with you at short notice, also take something like bach's rescue remedy that day to keep you calm as it will obviously be a highly stressful day for you

Good Luck

silverfrog · 26/06/2007 15:42

Thanks sparkles, but the meeting has already taken place (earlier today). Needless to say, not a lot was resolved and the nursery are still not interested in communicating with us at all. Dd has, as of this lunchtime, now left, but we will be taking this further.

OP posts:
sparklesandwine · 26/06/2007 15:57

sorry silver frog guess if i'd have read i would have know that

thats awful treatment and i think you have done the right thing to take her out straight away - i see that you have another lo are you on mat leave at the minute?

it sounds like she wasn't getting any benefit from the nursery and i'm sure that she will benefit more from being with you in a caring environment at home, i'm sure that there will be other baby/toddler clubs you can take her to for social interaction anyway

a friend of mine runs a group for parents of children with special needs (which her own son has plenty of and asd) which is helpful to her to talk to others in similar situations or who have had similar experiances and they have get togethers etc - do you have anything like this where you are?

silverfrog · 26/06/2007 16:20

Not on mat leave, am SAHM and dd1 was only in nursery for the extra social interaction as that is one of her main issues (she is desperate to play with other children, but just doesn't know how to). They have been marvellous at some things (getting her interested in messy play) but they just seem to have been ignoring too many of her needs. we already go to local toddler groups, and she absolutely loves tumbletots, so she on't be totally deprived, but it is a shame she cannot continue at nursery.

Still, if they don't want her there, it's their loss as she is a wonderful, funny little girl with so much to give.

OP posts: