To check ds's school books daily and reward/sanction as necessary?

[theduchessstill]

Well, that looks ridiculously harsh in the title so I'm genuinely seeking opinions.

He is a bright boy who is in Y7. Throughout primary school his handwriting was an issue, though predictably it didn't, despite threats to the contrary, stop his teacher awarding him secure plus for writing. He never got a 'pen licence' and always said (and I privately agreed) that writing with a pencil made his writing worse.

He's made a great start at secondary school: has done well in the tests he did before the holiday, got lots of achievement points and is happy. However, he asked me to ask him questions from his book today to help him revise for a test next week, and I was appalled by the state of his book. He wrote beautifully on the first few pages, but it's got steadily scruffier. Some pages I could barely read. From what I can tell he is working hard and content is good, but it just looks so sloppy - he's not writing on lines, it's big, lower case Is and Ts aren't dotted or crossed, lower case Ds look like Ls etc. The contrast with how he wrote at the start is stark, and that's what's made me cross as he clearly can write neatly, or more neatly than he is.

I flipped out a little and have said I will check whatever books he brings home every day. If I'm happy, he can earn stars towards an item he wants, if not then he won't. He moaned ('no one else's parents does this...') but not that much, but I am doubting myself now. Is it too draconian? I held off getting involved in improving his handwriting at primary school as I didn't want to put him off and attempts I did make just ended in conflict. I admit that privately I thought they were a little ott with it and prioritised style over substance a bit. I suppose I could now be over-compensating somewhat...

I just think he's bright, knows it, and maybe gets a bit sloppy with the finer details and I feel this could come back to bite him so want to nip it in the bid now. As a teacher, I know handwriting won't hold him back as long as it's legible, but I don't like the look of his books atm. AIBU?

Are you me? Or more accurately is your DS, my DS? Well except mine does have a diagnosis of dysgraphia. I don't think you're unreasonable to be worried, for all the reasons you mentioned about exams and examiners attitude when marking papers.

My stance - and his school's - has been less on the hand writing and more on learning how to make structured notes. It's not really something they teach in y7, instead kids copy out what's said or makes notes any old how. But actually there's basic tips/hints that can make a massive difference and so we've focused there.

I do check his work books, just when we're catching up on homework or revision and I point out where it's working (and where it's very obviously not!) but I try and keep it based on 'what could be improved' as opposed to 'looks like a drunk spider fell in an inkpot and staggered across the page'

We will be applying for exams to be typed and he's getting pretty adept at touch typing - which we were advised to focus on in upper primary when it was obvious he wasn't going to improve. But at the end of the day he still needs to be able to write so he can read his own notes!

How unfortunate that your son asks for help & instead you have a rant at him, revert to treating him like a naughty child & who will be subject to scrutiny, punishment & praise. How utterly counterproductive & confusing for your son.

Why not chuck him on the naughty step while your at it. I'm really glad you don't teach mine with this approach.

Bring capable of writing legibly and knowing when it's necessary to do so is what is important. Notes taken during lessons only need to be read by the note-taker and may often never need to be referred to as it is the action of writing it down that can help cement it in your memory. My masters lecture notes are messy with arrows and crossings out and I'm writing quickly so some of the words aren't legible but I know what they are from the context. My care plan or nursing documentation handwriting is absolutely legible, though, and my handwriting in cards is neat. Thank goodness I don't have an annoying person policing how I write where!

I think you are right to help and support him with this now before an unwanted habit becomes embedded. I remember one girl at university whose handwriting looked like a work of art but was completely illegible, all style over substance. Tutors were not impressed and kept telling her (in front of peers) to sort it out or risk poor results in finals. She found it really difficult and stressful to change at that late stage.

My DDs handwriting was like this & also bright & did well otherwise.

She turned out to have hEDS & her hands are hypermobile making writing difficult & painful for her, hence why it starts neatly & deteriorates. I'd be concerned that there is more going on if he's otherwise trying really hard & succeeding too

I would say it is important for his notes to be clear organised and readily available to help with revision.
Instead of using star charts and checking like this use it as a learning opportunity

We have recently had multiple Ed psych appointments for ds1. He has no working memory.
They guided that the kids who learn the best spend 5-10 mins for each subject each night reviewing that day’s learning from their notes.

If you have time to check his books I am guessing you have time to dit’s with him and go through his learning. This will lead to him naturally realising that when his work is neater and more organised he finds reviewing it easier. Then he will get your point without you ‘nagging’ which in ur 9 is what he will undoubtably think.
Good luck 👍

Please just leave him alone. What is this obsession parents have (it seems incredibly prevalent on MN) of interfering with their 'bright' children and their education? Just leave them be to go to school and enjoy it. Encourage without being pushy and they will be the best they can be.

Every doctor I've ever met has atrocious hand writing. - In fact the surgeons and consultants are worse.. by the time you get to Consultant Neurology Surgeons , you are talking illegible. - Just saying...

I would check his books. I check my own dd’s books. The fact he has shown at the start of his book that he can write neatly suggests he is capable. There is a possibility he is struggling to keep up but also a possibility he is being lazy. Good notes are needed for revision. He should also take a pride in his work.

My son is a lot younger only 9 but he earns screen time in an evening for practising his handwriting as I've noticed it's similar to your sons! So 15 mins handwriting gets 30 mins screen time - he generally does 30 mins so he can have an hour. Could you introduce something similar so it's rewarding rather than punishment?

2 of my dc have poor handwriting, for different reasons. Neither have Australia, but like a pp one is hypermobile and the other has sensory processing difficulties. One can write neatly but it hurts after a short time, the other can write neatly as long as that is the only task. If they are trying to listen, read and write at the same time the writing is much worse. Both were helped by the OT - this may be useful to rule out anything medical.

This can’t be real, surely?! Too many drip feeds are making it sound suspicious to me. Half way through the post you’ve become a secondary teacher, then a subject head, AQA examiner; all on the back of a PP who said it first. Why didn’t you state this in your op? It’s suspicious and you sound terribly uncaring to your child in your op anyway.....

So many people on here have said
'why are you worried, as long as it is readable, there is no problem'

But the OP clearly said

Some pages I could barely read

That IS a problem. It is a problem for him as he cannot re-read his own notes, and a problem for teachers and examiners.
Exam papers must be legible.

So there is an issue here.
I repeat what I said on page one. Talk to him about his books, and that they have to be a tool for him to use. Ask him to read back quickly a paragraph that he wrote a couple of weeks ago. If he can't, then he needs to understand that he will need to use these books for revision.
Year 7s are not used to note taking,and helping him see his books as a tool he will be able to come back to, is a good step towards the future anyway.

My DDs don't have great handwriting - but it is perfectly legible and they are both academic high achievers. Seriously, focus on content and legibility and let it go. As a teacher, you really ought to know better. Also star charts for an 11yo? Really?

No one learns to write neatly by being punished for messy writing. Find a tutor that can teach basic handwriting skills instead.

Look, 2 minutes on google and here are the lessons;
www.learnu.org/how-to-write-neater-old-school-techniques-to-develop-neat-handwriting/

I’ve just seen this bundle with Zelda on eBay. Which makes the game £40 and a bit cheaper than normal for all those wanting Zelda with it.

rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F123231523693

Don't they teach you in primary to step back and allow your child more independence?

Our catholic headmaster asked us all to step back and not mollycoddle the children.

Your system seems ott.

Apologies. Totally realised I posted this on the wrong thread

bows out

Well as a quick update I came home tonight and told ds I'd had a rethink and wouldn't be doing the checks I'd mentioned. His face fell and when I asked why he said he'd been looking forward to working towards the item he wants! He also said I must have a look at his books anyway as he'd made a special effort with them, which I did and he had so I told him so. We also compared today's work with some of his other work and he could see the difference for himself and also acknowledged how much easier revision would be if he can keep it fairly neat.

I'm not sure what the big deal is with a star chart tbh. I've never been a big user of them and only done a couple over the years as short-term fixes for various things, but his reaction today showed me that he's certainly not too old to be rewarded for improving at something, though of course he wouldn't want it pinned up on his bedroom wall complete with gold stars to show his mates when they come round...It can exist in our heads and has clearly been motivational for him. He's always moaning that other kids get paid for their SATs results, positive parents' evenings etc and I don't hold with that as I want him to value education for its intrinsic worth. However, I get that he doesn't see the point in worrying too much over handwriting when everything else is going well, and, as others have said, he's probably right to an extent, but if this gives him a kick to be a bit less careless it'll be no bad thing.

Lucie not sure why you don't believe me. I mentioned being a teacher in the OP. I thought if I mentioned the examining as well it may rule out replies and look like I already know anyway so why ask. However, when someone else mentioned being one, I felt like I had to point out I was one too . I've had many other threads in which these things are mentioned.

Anyway, overall I'm glad I have raised this and will keep an eye on it and reward if he keeps up the improvements, though more informally than I had planned. For those feeling sad for him, there's really no need - he's fine!

Or get him to try calligraphy or similar.

I agree with this 100%.

Maybe offer to buy him, a nice, good make of antique fountain pen for him to do his homework.

That's good. He can still work towards his reward by showing you his work regularly and keeping it as neat as he can.

I am not in favour of drilling handwriting styles into children because I do remember how it felt when my very "old school" headmaster Dad tried to do it with us. It just made me worry about it if I am honest.

My DD1 used to have very messy handwriting. I eventually found that she needed glasses, and it began to improve almost straight away. I also did regularly impress upon her that she could have written the most fantastic piece of work in the world, but if nobody could read it then it would be no use. She got there. She has a first class honours degree in Modern Languages and is now in the Civil Service.