would you consider "foreigner" an offensive term?

[questionzzz]

I gave a presentation to a university class yesterday, using the term foreigner,eg "foreigners and healthcare" (it wasn't about healthcare). For context, I am visible ethnic minority, grew up in the UK, moved to Canada in my early thirties. I explained in my presentation that I deliberately avoid using the term immigrant, because my presentation did not focus just on immigrants, but also talked about refugees, international students, their spouses, temporary foreign workers and so on. In short, foreigners. At the end of the presentation, one of the students (also visible ethnic minority) said she found the term foreigner offensive because it contributes to "othering" immigrants. I agree- I see the point- but the fact is, immigrants- and foreigners, are "othered", I said my lived reality is that I'm a foreigner- and foreigner is a non-academic,commonly-used phrase which everybody immediately understands. She said what about slogans saying "foreigner go home" on walls. Also many recent immigrants see themselves as "Canadian" and would resent being called foreign. Again, I agree! But should these racist slogans prevent us from using a pretty accurate term? Also, no matter how "canadian" recent immigrants feel, the fact is (as my presentation showed), they are not treated in the same ways and have different outcomes. Others said maybe I should consider using the term "foreign-born". I said in my home country, the administrative term is "alien". Maybe I should use "wanderer? or "stranger"?" Anyway, the discussion was good, and ended on bit of laugh, but it did get me thinking.
AIBU not to find "foreigner" offensive?

Here’s one of many many examples of the word ‘newcomer’ being used in Canada for the purposes that OP refers to.

I guess I just find it really interesting that OP is in Canada, working either for a government agency or something auxiliary to it, dealing with issues affecting exactly this group of people but has never heard the word which is commonly used by others within this context.

It’s kind of funny. It would be like me, claiming to work as a social worker in the U.K. and insisting on referring to welfare and claiming never to have heard the term ‘benefits’

hey ho, maybe the op is just really arrogant/oblivious?

@mindutopia "If you do opt to use a somewhat contested term, I think it’s always a good idea to acknowledge it’s problematic at the start of your presentation and perhaps it could stimulate some discussion about what might be a better word to use with your audience."

Thank you mindutopia- I have actually decided to amend my presentation to include a dictionary definition maybe as a kind of "background" in the first slide -where I start out with the list of groups I am talking about, and I will indeed acknowledge that it is contested and problematic. I don't want the presentation to get derailed into a discussion of what's offensive and what's not, when we're working on a critical social issue which affects everybody, not just "foreigners" (on par with healthcare, homelessness, gender-based violence etc).

I am a naturalised immigrant and would happily be called a foreigner.

Bloody bad manners to derail your talk by picking you up on one word.

I am a Canadian citizen. I know the word newcomer is frequently used, and I find it inaccurate and patronizing. So I choose not to use it.

So you decided to use a blunt word when there's an accepted word (which EVERYONE uses in Canada) because of your personal preference. Even the Truth and Reconciliation documents use 'newcomers' and I think they're pretty careful about terms. I refer to myself as a foreigner here, but not anyone else.

Depends on context and such really. Not many words are offensive on their own, but its how they are used, and sometimes who by too.

Ah this in in Canada.

Where Trudeau rudely pulled up a woman asking him a question that included the word “mankind”.

Where Trudeau rudely pulled up a woman asking him a question that included the word “mankind”.

He's an arsehole brocialist. Doesn't mean the entire rest of the country is wrong.

Right, so, there is a specific word in common usage in Canada but OP can’t be arsed to use it and everyone in Canada is therefore wrong because Trudeau is stupid?

Oooooookkkkkkkk

@MrsTerryPratcett this thread is too much 🤣

IKR @MadgeMidgerson ? I feel very Canadian right now, defending my adopted homeland!

O Canada my home, and native land...

But newcomer refers to a very specific type of foreigner that has recently arrived in the country. Yes, there is a heavy use of the term, but context is everything and it really doesn't get used to refer to anyone who is in Canada but not born there.

There is nothing wrong with the word "foreigner" although it sounds a bit old fashioned now.

Using "other" as a verb on the other hand...

I describe myself as a foreigner when not in the U.K.

I would expect to be called a foreigner in any other country than the UK. I would only expect to lose that description if I took on the nationality of the country I was in.

Whether foreigner or not is offensive would depend entirely on context.

eg. To say to someone who has lived here for 12 years "oh, you're a foreigner" could be offensive to them as they most likely do not consider themselves foreign after residing in a country for a number of years.

I like the term "non-nationals."

Yes to what ferrier just posted. If someone has become naturalised then they ar enot foreign at all.

I also think what term you could use would depend on the country. In Canada you could not use Native, because that term refers to an indigenous population that countries like Canada have. You could probably use it in the UK, as there is no "indigenous" British race.

I'm finding foreign born uncomfortable.

The cogs are still turning on this but first thoughts are it puts a very definite label on it that foreigners doesn't.

Whilst labels give clarity, they can also seriously make something stick out that simply doesn't need to. Like I say, I'm still thinking about this one lol.

It's tricky isn't it, I don't think the word is offensive in itself but it gets used negatively and it now has negative connotations. I agree that "foreign national" seems the best, most neutral alternative.

Ironically when I lived in Japan, many of my Japanese friends worried that I would be offended by the widely used term "Gaijin" (outsider) as it obviously has negative connotations and funnily enough it simply never bothered me at all. There is a more polite term "Gaikokugin"
(foreign country person) that is used for official business.

I don't think you were being offensive and I think the student overreacted but she wasn't totally wrong either.

In the context that you describe, the term foreigner was the correct one ('a person born in or coming from a country other than one's own'). Not offensive, descriptive.
The question the student was raising I suppose was that of belonging and identity, ie at what point should natives stop considering a foreigner as 'other' but it sounds like that wasn't the point of your talk.

To stop any issues in relation to this I'd start by briefly defining the terms you are using - using the dictionary. So if you start by saying something this "this presentation is about foreigners and healthcare, just to define some key terms so everyone is clear on scope, I have the following definitions: Foreigners (diction term/reference) and Healthcare (definte term, refer and scope)", That could be quite naturally done on the second slide just to define what the title (and hence your presentation) is on. Should stop any issues...

My DM would find the word foreigner offensive. She has lived as a migrant to the UK for approx 50 years, never naturalised and the only times she has ever heard the word foreigner spoken to her is as a term of abuse, usually as 'not another fucking foreigner' or similar.

Foreign-born, or 'migrants and refugees' would have been better.

The more I think about this the harder it is to come up with a non-offensive term that captures diverse groups of people who reside in a country that is not of their birth. Perhaps the best thing to do is to devote a couple of minutes at the start of your presentation to cover the groups you are talking about and explain the difficulties in accurately designating them without meaning to "other" people or cause offense. Reiterate that whichever term you settle on is for academic purposes and perhaps even ask the audience if they are all okay with your term, although I'm not sure what you would do if someone sticks their hand up and says they are bothered by it. I'd be tempted to ask the audience for suggestions, if nothing else they would also come to appreciate the challenge in finding a neutral term.

I am German, living her since 2000.

I am a foreigner as I do not have British citizenship yet, I am also an immigrant.

I don’t mind being told this, it is the truth if you use the words in the correct definition. But, it depends how they are used.

I do object being singled out because of my nationality and the fact that I haven’t been born here. I work and pay my taxes etc like my British colleagues. I do not isolate myself with my “own people” or deem myself better than a Brit.

The words unfortunately can now be used to hurt people. Before the .brexit referendum I had tons of discussions with colleagues who couldn’t understand that in any no deal scenario I would be like any other other third country immigrant. One comment was “ But you aren’t a foreigner or an immigrant, you are an
EU citizen, they cannot do this”.

I felt in all my years here that the Brits distinguish between Commonwealth citizens, especially New Zealand, Australia or Canada, EU citizen from the “old” countries, EU ones from Poland etc and everyone else. Only the latter two are “foreigners and immigrants”, and then these words were often used to hurt people.

I feel like this is some crazy reverse discussion about trans tims and women. Mumsnet has ruined me.