would you consider "foreigner" an offensive term?

[questionzzz]

I gave a presentation to a university class yesterday, using the term foreigner,eg "foreigners and healthcare" (it wasn't about healthcare). For context, I am visible ethnic minority, grew up in the UK, moved to Canada in my early thirties. I explained in my presentation that I deliberately avoid using the term immigrant, because my presentation did not focus just on immigrants, but also talked about refugees, international students, their spouses, temporary foreign workers and so on. In short, foreigners. At the end of the presentation, one of the students (also visible ethnic minority) said she found the term foreigner offensive because it contributes to "othering" immigrants. I agree- I see the point- but the fact is, immigrants- and foreigners, are "othered", I said my lived reality is that I'm a foreigner- and foreigner is a non-academic,commonly-used phrase which everybody immediately understands. She said what about slogans saying "foreigner go home" on walls. Also many recent immigrants see themselves as "Canadian" and would resent being called foreign. Again, I agree! But should these racist slogans prevent us from using a pretty accurate term? Also, no matter how "canadian" recent immigrants feel, the fact is (as my presentation showed), they are not treated in the same ways and have different outcomes. Others said maybe I should consider using the term "foreign-born". I said in my home country, the administrative term is "alien". Maybe I should use "wanderer? or "stranger"?" Anyway, the discussion was good, and ended on bit of laugh, but it did get me thinking.
AIBU not to find "foreigner" offensive?

@Bombardier neither. I was representing a community-based service provision organization.

Intl students and refugees are not commonly considered immigrants. Eve the main government agency is called "Immigration and Refugee Citizenship Canada" differentiating between different categories of movement.

But I'm not a 'foreign national'. I'm British, that is my only nationality. Yet I am also a foreigner, and a lot of the issues that apply to foreigners still apply to me, despite my naturalisation.

'Foreign-born' is also inappropriate. If I was in my country of birth I would not be foreign-born, yet the issues of foreigners in that country would apply to me.

Wild that there is an inoffensive term in wide usage in the country you’re in but here you are on a U.K. website asking people to validate your inappropriate terminology

I think foreign national sound better than foreigner. I am currently officially a non-immigrant resident of the USA, like lots of people. I don’t thing international students are immigrants since they will go home after a fixed period. Certainly in the US they are classed as non-immigrants.

"newcomer" was suggested.
I didn't go with newcomer, because there is evidence of people living in Canada for many many years (such as myself) and still not feeling as if they "belong".

I don't know what your "hmmm" is supposed to imply?

For more context, my title / presentation didn't contain the word "foreigner", more like
"healthcare issues in foreign families" (again, it wasn't about healthcare, but similar sort of thing)

@OP, i think you werent offensive :)
There are so many nuances to nationality and migration. I think “Foreigners” in speech marks is also fine as it indicates factual usage but recognition, along with your list, that there different degrees of foreignness.

@Madge, yeah really, really wild. I cannot even begin to imagine anything wilder. So wild. Really crazy and out there.

I'm a foreigner, most people assume I'm not as have lived here since 11 years old and don't have any accent

It is an accurate description of what I am and nothing else.

Madge's post makes it quite clear that she is oblivious to some of the issues that foreigners can have to deal with, even after they have lived in their new country (or village!) for years, and are embedded in its culture, and think of themselves as belonging.

Intl students and refugees are not commonly considered immigrants.

They are in the UK, and are counted as such in official statistics. Which is where you're asking the question.

It all sounds unprofessional. Define the groups at the beginning and use the official terms.

As to whether it's offensive, it wouldn't offend me but I would raise an eyebrow at the use of such a vague/ catch all term in a professional presentation. I can understand how those that are impacted by nationalists (fascists) would find it offensive.

lol I have lived as a foreigner in England for nearly 20 years now

one thing I have noticed is how English people automatically assume they know everything everywhere - why ask then, OP since you already knew you were right?

Yes, dumb old Canadians, why can’t they be more like sensible English people, hey?

Do you mean to sound like a coloniser?

Depends on context. Having lived for years in a shit Fenland town where 99% of the times I heard it used, it was very much meant negatively, and being married to an EU migrant who has had the word applied to him as an insult more times than I cab count, I don't find your student's comments surprising.

I'm not sure there is a word or phrase which replaces it which will be acceptable to all, though. Foreign has become a very loaded and othering word, but probably all words and phrases commonly used to mean similar have also been affected.

@Bombardier "Define the groups at the beginning" I did. see post above. "use the official terms"- I chose not to, again for reasons I stated above.

@Madge "Do you mean to sound like a coloniser?" WTAF? So using the term foreigner/ foreign families is a colonizing term now?
FWIW, I think newcomer is patronizing and I wince whenever I see it. So yeah, lot of wincing.

I do think I am right! Others agree, and others don't. That is what a discussion is, right? and I am interested in the discussion.

Then why fo you not recognise that the foreigner recognises that she has used a word that is neutral to her, but is uncertain of its neutrality where she is living? Nothing colonial about that.

I'm certainly not a newcomer, either! Far more patronising that foreigner.

Than, not that.

I don't find the word 'foreigner' offensive. In some circs it can be very helpful - eg 'I'm a foreigner, can you help me find the Eiffel Tower'.

I was referred to as a foreigner in another country. I didn't realise I was supposed to be offended.

Hi. In Canada, people use ‘newcomer’ not foreigner.

Other people in other countries may use foreigner, but in Canada, people do not.

You’ve been told this, when you have your presentation. You’re being told this again, here.

Maybe you can ask MN to change the title of your thread to: ‘why does an entire nation persist in doing it differently when I know I’m right?’ 🤣🤣🤣

Nope it's not offensive. I am from N America and live in UK. I refer to myself as a foreigner.

it is coloniser behaviour to come over from the U.K. and insist that everyone bow down to U.K. terms, and U.K. norms

do you do this everywhere you go op? why’d you leave when it’s clearly superior?

I think in the context of the world we live in, it's a word that causes difficulties. Xenophobes have taken ownership of the word and changed its meaning so that it's perceived to be no longer neutral. It's for that reason that I feel the term 'foreign nationals' would be better to use in a formal presentation. It's a sad sign of the times.

There's always a snowflake waiting to be offended.

@JellySlice you cannot be a foreigner and be british. Could you elaborate?

I'm not sure of the full list of people you were trying to describe but if it's those not born in Canada why not say that?

What I think is offensive is insisting that ethnic minorities are foreign despite being born here etc.

" an entire nation ..." Madge- are you the spokesperson for the entire nation of Canada or the UK?

I am a Canadian citizen. I know the word newcomer is frequently used, and I find it inaccurate and patronizing. So I choose not to use it.

On this thread, you will find mixed responses, some agreeing and some disagreeing. That is ok. But it is by no means a clear-cut "everyone disagrees" that you are claiming. In fact, I am thinking most people here are saying they do NOT consider foreigner offensive.

regarding the other nonsense you are spouting about coloniser behaviour, and thinking UK is superior or whatever (I never said I think that!) yeah, right. No. I disagree that using the term "foreigner" is colonising behaviour. Colonizers have historically used far, far worse words. foreign does not even begin to come close.