AIBU to not give my sisters children Christmas and birthday gifts

[Glamdring]

I think I am but my husband disagrees!

So his reasoning is that my sister and her partner never (hardly ever - there have been a few times) given our children (DD1 DS1 and DS2) presents despite asking me every year what to get nothing is ever given. My husband feels disappointed as every year on FB there are pictures of their children surrounded by piles of presents - more than we would buy for our own - yet can't manage to give ours a £1 colouring book for example. She doesn't ever remember the children's birthdays either not even to send them a card - I don't post them on FB so I don't think she even knows when they are.

So there is a massive backstory and I'll try to be brief. My sister is a low income family, her partner is on long term sick because of depression (we are talking nearly 10 years) and my sister is in a low income job so they live in a quite grotty and small rented flat. Over the years my sisters partners (MSP from now on) children from previous relationships (currently DD1 age 25 with baby, DS1 23 and DD2 19) have also come to live in this 2 bed place which is obviously really cramped. They used to both smoke heavily indoors and children's clothes reeked. When my sister did work full time her DD2 suffered form Vit D deficiency and problems walking as she was never taken out (also developed asthma). There are many things here that upset me and over the years I have advised and things have improved in their home - particularly the smoking! But this may be another thread. MSP also smokes weed often despite my sister asking my dad weekly for cash for food (they have also used the food bank many times).

So moving on, over the few years I have encouraged my sister to come away on holiday with her children (MSP never comes and neither does my DH) to help get them into a different environment as well as spending time with my nieces. She will pay half the holiday rental and half food as we go self catering - so really she is paying just to feed hart family. I pay for fuel and extras such as fish and chips, ice cream, outings alcohol. I do this because I care for my family and want them to experience and enjoy some of the things they cannot have and get them out to see new places and do new things. Because their home life isn't ideal I really want to give them some childhood experiences they would have otherwise not have had. Problem is last few holidays I've ended up paying for the food in addition to the other costs and my sister is a loud and constant shouter and even my DD1 has found it tough when they join us for the week. So I've reached the point where I don't want to go away with them any more and my husband is adamant my sister is taking advantage of me one example is that she's has not payed me back for food from out last trip this summer.

FWIW DH and I are not hugely wealthy. Although I am a graduate and have a professional job now we also live in a small house but our hard work has meant this is well set up for our family and we can afford a few trips/holidays a year. Because we are financially okish I feel that it is important to help my sister and her children who are in a much more difficult position but my husband says I should stop because I am being taken advantage of.

My husband wanted to add a few other things - we haven't been able to develop a relationship with MSP as he always goes out or stays in his room when we visit. There is a feeling in the family that his depression is an excuse to not work and claim benefits. He has an expensive mountain bike (bought by his parents also low income family) and is often is out with mates on that leaving my sister to run the home and look after the children as well as work. He has recently just bought a car despite having no need for this - my sister doesn't drive, her work and school are within 10 mins walk from home and good public transport to see friends/family (MSP refused to use this). Somehow they plan to afford to get married next year too. 

So the AIBU is should I do as my husband says and not get the children presents for Christmas/birthdays or should I do what I feel is right - not give gifts but take them on outings and do activities instead as I think not giving anything would ultimately just punish them.

And a medal for getting to the end 

If you can afford it and you want to do a nice thing for your DN's then do it. I think with the holidays you'll have to view any money spent on your DSis and DN's as gifts with no expectation of repayment.

Family is family and you should do what you can to support them - it sounds like she really does need the support, if you can.

It sounds like she's really struggling :(

Do they have younger children together as well as her older DC?

I wouldn't buy them presents, agree with your DH.

I would give them vouchers for clothes or cinema/food so they can get out and use them. It’s so sad, i know why your DH would feel like that but it’s not the kids fault.

But do the treats / experiences.

How old are the children and how does your Sister afford the piles of presents if she’s struggling so much? Are they really going to go without if you don’t get them anything?

Thanks for the reply's

It's difficult isn't it! I think the cinema tickets are a good idea.

the older children I mentioned in the post are MSP children from two past relationships. The two oldest are from a partner he left years ago and the DD19 is relationship before DSiS. They have 2 DD 11 and 7.

We can't understand how they afford the piles of presents, I suspect maybe pay day loans or just poor spending as they are often asking my dad for money for food shortly after Christmas

DH says the point is not that they are struggling but they spend a ridiculous amount of money on gifts for the children and can't buy our boys a small gift especially after we've sent gifts every Christmas and birthday and they still seem to expect more on holiday. It's more about the token gesture of remembering our children and family after we have done so much for them. It's the principal of it.

My husband johns as you do sweetiedarling that they would not be missing out - but I think they may feel like I have forgotten them especially as I have given revenue year

If it’s going to make you feel really bad then I think your idea of giving them a day out is a good one. Your DCs could write an invite out for them to give on Xmas day or something so they don’t feel like they have been forgotten. I certainly wouldn’t feel obliged to buy more toys or make a large gesture.

Maybe learning about mental health issues and how they can affect people would be the best 'present' you can give them.

Don't send presents, why not take them out as a New Year treat something like cinema or bowling. Just your family and the two younger ones. What you would spend on the presents put aside for his treat. I am sure it will mean a lot to them. I would bin off the joint holiday through. Sounds awful.

Oppps crossed post sorry

TBH from what you say, they aren't short of money. I think you prefer to see it that way but bottom line is they mismanage the money they do have.

Keep issues with money etc to the adults, buy each child a smaller, token type gift & leave it at that. If she doesn't reciprocate that's up to her but I suspect she will notice the lesser gifts & might think differently in future.

Outings with you sound like very precious opportunities for them. Ideally just you, your kids and your sister's kids, without your sister (if they are old enough).

Make a nice card which looks a bit like a token and says something along the lines of "1 outing to Chessington World of Adventures with your aunt and cousins, to be redeemed by Name in 2019".

Keep buying the younger kids a small gift (£10 or less) each as a nice gesture. I wouldn't buy for the others.
I, also, wouldn't go on holiday with them in future but I might offer to take the younger two. Her partner's family aren't your responsibility.

Has her boyfriend never heard of the connection between weed and depression?

Depending on what you mean by long term sick, if you mean he is on benefits such as ESA and PIP, there is a high chance he has been refused these now and is awaiting on tribunals, which can take between 1-2 years, depending on area. For mental health reasons, you are normally only granted these for 3 years

Maybe your sister, gets out loans/brighthouse/payday loans to be able to afford Christmas each year then spends the rest of the year trying to pay it back.

I would continue to buy for them even if it's just a token. It's not the kids fault that their parents don't buy for yours.

Thanks,

Love the idea of a invitation/voucher to a day out. Will have to think about the logistics as they don't live close to us so have to make an overnight visit.

I have no idea if MSP has made the connection between weed and depression- we struggle understand anything about his depression as he doesn't talk to us, spends no time with any of the family (despite having worked with my dad years ago) and my sister won't talk about it.

We leave them to live their private lives and happy to not discuss if if they don't wish - his MH is not the issues of the post just included for context of low income but spend loads on Christians - the issues of the post is how they have responded to the help and support we have given over the years and that we feel - well - my husband angry, me sad that our children are forgotten come Christmas.

I think there's a difference between genuinely struggling financially and spending unwisely. I would never knock anybody without knowing all the facts - and obviously I don't in this instance - but I think I must side with your DH. I think also if DNieces are getting so much they probably won't miss your gift anyway - my BIL hasn't sent anything for my DC for years and they haven't realised as yet. I think treating DNieces now and again to trips out is a lovely idea, and gives them something that they clearly aren't getting from home.

I have stopped buying presents for all the children in the family. I'd rather spend it on my children and avoid the disappointed faces whenever cousins forget to reciprocate. Or worse, open the crappest present we have ever seen! If I were you, I'd stop buying presents for your sister's kids and stop going on holiday with them. Your husband is right, focus on your own family.

Yes agree it's not the children's fault!

I don't know the situation regarding their benefits only that they had a massive argument about it while we were away, my sister promised to pay me back for food I bought as they had probes with the benefit money but when home they bought a car instead!

I really worry about the loans as my sister has had problems/debts in the past.......

Your DH is not wrong. But it's not his DSis.

I would not do the holiday funding anymore as it would appear this gives them more money to fund his weed habit. I appreciate he has mental health problems but weed is proven to worsen them.

I would buy Xmas/b'day presents for the 7 and 11 yr old but agree with husband regarding a limit - do not give cash.

If your children ask why their Autie has not bought them a present, just say the best present is love, and they love you dearly and that not everyone can afford to give presents on top of love.

I would stop buying the adult kid presents, or maybe a token £5 bottle,of plonk at the most. Maybe do birthdays and not Christmas, or vice versa.

I would continue buying the younger children gifts.However, theyndon’t Have to be expensive. £5-10 per child? Maybe combine the gifts with a treat. Ie. Christmas - tickets to the panto, birthday - cinema tickets, plus small gift connected to film you plan to see.

Also, you can still take them for days out, but do free days. Ie. London - museums, Harrods, tralfager square etc, daytrip to Brighton - beach, shops, etc