AIBU to not give my sisters children Christmas and birthday gifts

[Glamdring]

I think I am but my husband disagrees!

So his reasoning is that my sister and her partner never (hardly ever - there have been a few times) given our children (DD1 DS1 and DS2) presents despite asking me every year what to get nothing is ever given. My husband feels disappointed as every year on FB there are pictures of their children surrounded by piles of presents - more than we would buy for our own - yet can't manage to give ours a £1 colouring book for example. She doesn't ever remember the children's birthdays either not even to send them a card - I don't post them on FB so I don't think she even knows when they are.

So there is a massive backstory and I'll try to be brief. My sister is a low income family, her partner is on long term sick because of depression (we are talking nearly 10 years) and my sister is in a low income job so they live in a quite grotty and small rented flat. Over the years my sisters partners (MSP from now on) children from previous relationships (currently DD1 age 25 with baby, DS1 23 and DD2 19) have also come to live in this 2 bed place which is obviously really cramped. They used to both smoke heavily indoors and children's clothes reeked. When my sister did work full time her DD2 suffered form Vit D deficiency and problems walking as she was never taken out (also developed asthma). There are many things here that upset me and over the years I have advised and things have improved in their home - particularly the smoking! But this may be another thread. MSP also smokes weed often despite my sister asking my dad weekly for cash for food (they have also used the food bank many times).

So moving on, over the few years I have encouraged my sister to come away on holiday with her children (MSP never comes and neither does my DH) to help get them into a different environment as well as spending time with my nieces. She will pay half the holiday rental and half food as we go self catering - so really she is paying just to feed hart family. I pay for fuel and extras such as fish and chips, ice cream, outings alcohol. I do this because I care for my family and want them to experience and enjoy some of the things they cannot have and get them out to see new places and do new things. Because their home life isn't ideal I really want to give them some childhood experiences they would have otherwise not have had. Problem is last few holidays I've ended up paying for the food in addition to the other costs and my sister is a loud and constant shouter and even my DD1 has found it tough when they join us for the week. So I've reached the point where I don't want to go away with them any more and my husband is adamant my sister is taking advantage of me one example is that she's has not payed me back for food from out last trip this summer.

FWIW DH and I are not hugely wealthy. Although I am a graduate and have a professional job now we also live in a small house but our hard work has meant this is well set up for our family and we can afford a few trips/holidays a year. Because we are financially okish I feel that it is important to help my sister and her children who are in a much more difficult position but my husband says I should stop because I am being taken advantage of.

My husband wanted to add a few other things - we haven't been able to develop a relationship with MSP as he always goes out or stays in his room when we visit. There is a feeling in the family that his depression is an excuse to not work and claim benefits. He has an expensive mountain bike (bought by his parents also low income family) and is often is out with mates on that leaving my sister to run the home and look after the children as well as work. He has recently just bought a car despite having no need for this - my sister doesn't drive, her work and school are within 10 mins walk from home and good public transport to see friends/family (MSP refused to use this). Somehow they plan to afford to get married next year too. 

So the AIBU is should I do as my husband says and not get the children presents for Christmas/birthdays or should I do what I feel is right - not give gifts but take them on outings and do activities instead as I think not giving anything would ultimately just punish them.

And a medal for getting to the end 

Airyfairyunicorn

Although my OP was fairly balanced yep I am happy to say I am judging my sisters parenting. Why? Because due to her partner she has gone against what I know to be her own good judgment to make some really poor choices for her family and the children have/are suffering because of these.

Id like to think that anyone with a family member suffering with difficulties like this would make a judgement to try and help/ be more involved than you normally would.

Also I don't think she is a shit parent, she has and does tried really hard she takes the children out as much as she can, but she is essentially a single parent who sometimes struggles with parenting (she has told me and my did this) which is why over the years I have tried to help.

These are some of the reasons I still want to help - but in a different way than I have before by my DH thinks I should stop.

The ideas from posters linked to my thoughts on outings and activities are brilliant and will give me a few things to do over the coming years. First step is Christmas which will take some thought as my sister lives accords the country from me so I will plan some outings for when I visit.

I don't believing in giving to receive which is why I'd like to carry on with outings and activities

Springdaff the school have been involved ( I also suspect SS but my sister won't tell me) and she has been seeing a paediatrician. So I haven't been involved with this - just left it to the professionals and given advice when asked.

I would never begrudge the two small children a Christmas gift. That will not make either of you feel any better and if your children have never received anything anyway it makes no difference to them.

I can see why you might get upset about their piled at Christmas but i came from a family a bit like this and Christmas was the only time we were spoilt. Maybe dsis puts in extra effort for the same reasons?

It sounds like things are financially tight at home for her. It's crap about her dp but i guess your dsis wont have much control over what he chooses to spend money on.

If you enjoy the holidays i dont really see the issue with food either. It cant cost much extra to feed 2 children and dsis for say a week. But if it does bother you knock the holidays on the head. Its not your fault if your dnieces dont get a holiday.

Fwiw i have helped my db out over the years with his children getting traienrs coats things like that when they have struggled and i have been able to. I know my db would love to do it all if they could but sometimes theyre just not in the position too. I am happy to help and its never mentioned afterwards. My family did this for me growing up too.

Spot on Raarfy.
Sounds like your sister and her children are really struggling, OP. Christmas may be the one one day your sister wants them to feel like any other family. Even if logically, getting into debt to pay for Christmas is crazy, it may not if you’re struggling anyway.
Poor kids.
A token gift and a day out sounds a great idea.

Thanks Rarfy

I have enjoyed the holidays up until this year where DSIS had said she had bought the food (we each did an online shop) and at the last minute there was no food  I ended up covering the shortfall - nearly £100 without a word from her of thanks. When she got money at the end of the week I was a bit when I was at the supermarket checkout I was buying the bits for dinner and she was buying cigs/alcohol/chocolate /nuts.

At this point I did feel a bit taken advantage of - but said nothing as I didn't want to spoil the hol and I knew she'd been arguing with her DP over a problem with their benefits payments. My dad later told me the money she had was a loan never from him. She later promised to pay me for the food but didn't. They bought a car though ....??!! I'm at he point of not worrying about the money now - there are bigger things, but my DH is still angry about it.

As I mentioned in the OP she is also a bit shouty/loud and my DD1 found this awkward and I have to say it was hard to maintain calm and a bit stressful. So I have decided to give the hols with her a miss from now on. But outings for the children will be great. Also perhaps some time for me and my sis together and no children may be better idea for us to spend time together as we do have fun - she is a lovely well meaning person overall.

Yes the holidays don't sound fun anymore. I think you have definitely made the right choice there.

It's really difficult as other people justhave different priorities. I have a sibling who never spends anything on e.g. home improvements. Always pleading poverty to the point you feel sorry for them but every wkend spends the whole wkend eating out, drinking bottles of vodka / gin / whisky not even cheap drink and take handouts left right and centre for food. It's annoying as f but whilst people bankroll them they will carry on living the high life.

I got stuck on this sentence too:

her DD2 suffered form Vit D deficiency and problems walking as she was never taken out (also developed asthma)

I don't know if your sister and her DP have financial or mental health problems, if the weed is the cause of their difficulties, or if they're just rubbish with money. I'm not sure it matters really.

I would concentrate on the relationship you want to have with your nieces. Be the friendly aunt who's always been there for them and who always remembers their birthdays/Christmas. If they get loads of toys at Christmas, give them clothes or a day out etc instead, as has been suggested upthread. Acknowledge that things you do for them (e.g. holidays) will frequently go un-reciprocated or unpaid by your sister, so only do as much as you can afford to do.

But don't withdraw from them. It sounds like they have a pretty tough time and could do with some good role-models in their lives.

I think you should take your sister out for the day and have a conversation about whether marrying this man is really in her best interests. Then take the kids out on a separate day out and make it really lovely.

I understand poor mental health and how shit the support can be, especially on a low income, but at a certain point you have to make choices for your children not yourself and your sister would do better without her partner. She's already a single parent in all but name but is having to help support 3 other adults too. Her life is never going to improve while she stays with a long-term weed addict.

You seem really kind OP.

We don't tend to give gifts to the children once they are over 18 In our family.

Maybe you could give small gifts to the younger children but do they really need any more clutter anyway.I think vouchers is a good idea or taking them out.

I think your sister could make some effort towards your dc.

I would buy a token as it would hurt to be left out by an auntie who is stable - both in terms of her home life and finances because of their parents actions. I realise your sister doesn’t buy for your kids but that isn’t her children’s fault. If they already have tonnes of stuff (that their parents are likely in massive debt to afford) I would make sure it’s something you know will be used and enjoyed and not just a present for the sake of it that will just end up in landfill.

I'm not sure why any of this means the younger kids shouldn't get presents tbh? But not buying you punish them, not your sister.

I think your sister is really struggling and I wouldn't punish her children because she forgets to buy presents for yours. I would continue to buy presents for them, be it trips out or experiences. I would be inclined to include your nieces in more stuff at your house, just taking them to the park, a day at the sea side, all the normal things you would do with your family. It must be really difficult for them to live in this environment and I would want to ensure they had a more 'normal' life and had an idea of what life could be so that the cycle of chaos doesn't continue into their adulthood. As the adopted mum of two who came from a very chaotic environment I can really empathise. I would also say that because our two are so badly affected by their early life experiences all of our 'support network' disappeared. So I really think it would be great if you could still be there for your nieces. It may well help your sister and her partner to give them some space and quiet time too.

What a dreadful situation. I agree with those who suggest buying token gifts (that the scumbag bloke can't sell for weed money) and offering them time and support instead. They're lucky to have you and DH in their corner, because their parents have failed them.

Thanks for the kind and helpful messages,

I agree that it is unreasonable not to buy the children gifts because of it all and I am planning something nice - not sure exactly what yet, but working on it.

It is tough as people have said but it is important to me to continue the relationship with my nieces in the hope that positive influences will help them support positive development later in life. There have been a few posters who have commented how they have helped and supported family members who have also been in a less than ideal situation and don't regret it - thank you for sharing these, they have been so helpful. I hope I can also help them as they grow up.

Glam, I agree with your last post. I feel it is key that the 'strong' people in your niece's lives don't abandon them. Good luck, you sound like a super auntie and a great role model.