To think badly behaved kids do exist....

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

I recently light heartedly joined a discussion about poor behaviour among neighbourhood kids - others had already commented about poor behaviour/manners on halloween and i also noted kids not saying please/thank you & other things I won't put detail on here about. I immediately got berated for "being quick to judge" - apparently I should have assumed those children might have autism or learning difficulties, and should be more tolerant. AIBU? I appreciate some kids do need exceptions made but surely this must be the minority, and it is statistically more likely that a child will be neurotypical than not? Within reason if you see poor behaviour its more likely to be that a condition of some sort? Or are there no kids who just a bit naughty or play up occasionally any more? Mine must be the only cheeky DS left

I think the point is you don’t know whether they have additional needs or not so fairer to assume it’s the case than to tut and judge the behaviour.

But how on earth can I know? These are children of junior school age who've been sent out on Halloween without an adult. I (obviously wrongly) felt that children who had additional needs would have been with a parent. If there's a pair of children out alone and neither says thank you, should I honestly assume both have additional needs? It feels like encouraging or allowing bad manners, and sets a poor example to my younger son who's beside me in the doorway.

Nb. I didn't tut or berate the children (I was taken too much by surprise) but commented in a general context to other mums.

No, I think you were right actually, but I've only just had chance to read it all. I also don't want children sitting in the park drinking.

YANBU OP. The virtue signalling on MN is really tiring sometimes. About 15% of children are estimated to have SEN (thank you gov.uk website), which means 85% don’t. It is therefore statistically more likely that when you’re dealing with a badly behaved child, they’re just exactly that - badly behaved.

My ds is non-verbal and an adult. As a child he was capable of signing 'please' and 'thank you'.

If children are out unaccompanied at Hallowe'en, I'd assume they are capable enough of offering a 'thanks'.

My kid has additional needs and is very polite and says thank you. Why is it assumed that additional needs kids can’t learn manners?

But children with SNs doesnt mean they can be rude and naughty. If a child has a condition like that then a parent should be with them.

I think some children are naughty, rude, entitled.

It's definitely virtue signalling. Some bad behaviour may be down to SN but not all of it.

Plenty of kids with additional needs have excellent manners and are delightful.

Plenty without additional needs are rude.

It’s very rarely an ‘additional needs’ issue.

Although with the excitement of Halloween, lots of young kids can forget themselves.

If course some children are rude entitled and naughty. They learn from their adults and there is a huge amount of rude entitled and naughty parents out there.

Some kids are bloody horrible. Some parents are absolutely useless.

Thanks all. Reassuring - especially the statistic re 15% SEN. A friends child has additional needs, his behaviour can be poor in certain environments but as a result she supervises him in those situations which helps hugely.

There are definitely plenty of rude adults. In fact I can even think of some occasions where the adults were rude but the kids with them quite polite.

You can't win OP. You're either discriminating because you haven't considered that rudeness or poor behaviour might stem from an SN issue, or you're unreasonable to think that SN children are more likely to be rude or display poor behaviour!

I agree, I think any child out unaccompanied, including ones with speech and language issues, autism etc should be able to say thank you when given something.

you might be talking about my kids and their friends that were loud and excitable while trick or treating last night. 4 out of the 6 of them have SEN. You would possibly only be able to tell it about one of them.

The point is, in most cases you wont know, so its best to try to not judge too harshly, even though obviously these children will need to learn to behave appropriately too, but in a lot of children with SEN it does take longer.

my friends son has autism.
He is perfectly capable of saying please and thank you etc.

Of course every child is different, but this does wind me up.

Manners need to be taught, many kids these days are not taught them. It goes with the general entitlement of kids today.
No, you the world doesn't revolve around you, yes you need to show some respect to other people (children and adults)

Branleuse - were you or another adult out with them? I found it hard to believe quite young kids (we are talking about 8 or 9) would be out alone if they had additional needs/SEN that was hard to identify

Branleuse - but presumably, you were with them, and encouraging them to behave in an appropriate way for the context.

I don't think the OP is about loud of excited, but simple thank yous to people who are giving you sweets isn't rocket science, even if you have to remind them every single time.

No big deal. What's your actual point? A lot of kids forget to say please and thanks especially when excited, all that's needed is a gentle reminder, What do we say? Issue over Neither harsh judgement nor total indulgence is a good idea.

@tillytrotter1 agree.

I would hesitate to categorise forgetting your ps and qs as "badly behaved". Perhaps "slightly ill-mannered", would be more appropriate.

I'm not sure if I always remembered my manners growing up. In fact, I know I didn't as I still remember feeling ashamed when a mum pointed out I hadn't said thank you when I went round for tea at a friend's house.

My parents weren't that strict about such things, but I was never badly behaved and always did well at school. Whereas the primary school friend whose mum was pernickety about my manners, and wouldn't let us watch certain TV programmes when we were there, went off the rails in her teens.

I've seen, and know/known, very polite children forget all manners in light of the utter manic excitement of things like chocolate and sweets on Halloween, Christmas gifts, birthday party bouncy castle madness etc. They revert to their usual well-mannered selves once the craziness of a bucket of goodies/fun/parties/ etc has worn off.

My DD does not have SEN and I had to pull her up several times for not saying thank you and just taking the sweets and running. She’s not a bad kid usually just over excited but it was rude and I told her so! I’m told she’s well mannered at her school and at her CM so hopefully I’m not raising a complete monster. So yes some kids are just rude sometimes.