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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find this pan handler manipulative

49 replies

Daffodildainty · 30/10/2018 22:44

Lived in my area for 6 years. Was accustomed to occasionally being approached by a casual but quite well dressed bloke for a number of years at the train station asking for money with a seemingly plausible excuse. He took to sitting outside the station with a money jar this summer. I saw him skip off to the off license a couple of times when he was given money. Over the months he’s gradually changed his look - shaving his head , applying a studied look of sadness and bewilderment. Thing is it’s just an act - if you see him when he thinks no one is looking he’s totally perky and switched on. I just think he gives the genuine needy and homeless and particularly the mentally ill on our streets a bad name - AIBU - to be pissed off with him?

OP posts:
reallyanotherone · 30/10/2018 22:55

I read an article in the Big Issue years ago i thought interesting.

Basically it was a story from a homeless man who had successfully sold the BI and was now housed.

He pointed out he felt in a catch 22. He could now wash and keep himself and his clothes in good condition. He still needed to sell the BI though for an income through his transition into housing and while looking for a job.

On one hand, he felt he could smarten up and show his regular customers the difference they made. On the other, if he was too nicely dressed people wouldn’t believe he was homeless and they stopped buying from him...

Doesn’t necessarily mean he’s not needy...

Fluffyears · 30/10/2018 22:57

Sales techniques like any other. There used to be one outside central station in Glasgow with no shoes on m, shaking violently from the cold . Aye right pal if you have no shoes why are your feet spotless? Also spotted his girlfriend giving him his shoes later on.

FTFF · 30/10/2018 23:05

One of the "hungry and homeless" in my town centre had a flat and used to get the bus into town with all the other commuters. She saw begging as her job. She took her wee dog with her and wore ripped/dirty clothes but if you saw her in the evening a she was like a different person.

She would happily tell you she didn't need to do it as her benefits covered her outgoings but she made a lot of money from it.

DontCallMeCharlotte · 30/10/2018 23:09

There was a charming Big Issue seller whose pitch was outside our local supermarket. We'd buy it every week and bin it straightaway because it was shite and have a little chat. He did have a flat with his girlfriend Confused My then DP was able to offer him work as a gofer on a massive construction site he was working on - earning more than I was! Would even pick him up and drop him home. He lasted about a month - didn't like the early starts. I don't buy the Big Issue any more.

hungryhippo90 · 31/10/2018 01:08

Yeah I think it's their thing to be as manipulative as possible

SeasonOfTheCrone · 31/10/2018 06:30

How do you know it's an act and that during this 'number of years' that he's been regularly asking strangers for money, his life hasn't spiralled down and out of control? Either way, sitting on the street and begging looks like a shitty job to me, getting ignored, abused, accused of [if clean] not needing to beg or [if look 'wrong' to someone] accused of pretending to need to be, sitting in the wind, rain, hot sun. I don't know how much money beggars make and it must vary from place to place, but surely people who do this must feel they have no other option, it must be really crap for them. How long's 'a number of years'? It sounds like a long time and plenty of time for a life or a part of a life to fuck up.

SeasonOfTheCrone · 31/10/2018 06:36

Pretending to need to beg that is ^^

Amanduh · 31/10/2018 06:45

How do you know he’s not mentally ill?

Thisreallyisafarce · 31/10/2018 06:58

You've been watching a homeless man when he thinks no-one is looking?

Perhaps he is manipulative. However, I cannot imagine his life is a picnic. In fact, I imagine it to be a nightmare. Have some compassion. You don't need to give him cash, but what possesses you to spend your free time thinking about how "pissed off" you are with someone who sleeps rough?

longwayoff · 31/10/2018 06:59

We have a couple of regular BI sellers in town. One is a Rumanian woman who is out every day in all weathers. The other is a local man, ditto. I wouldnt like to be either of them and have to gain an income in this way. I buy from the man only, simply because he looks so ill and as if he needs it more.

CherryPavlova · 31/10/2018 07:06

I can’t believe any reasonable, well person would rather beg than be safely housed and in employment. It’s a nasty Daily Mail attitude that it’s a lifestyle choice.
Our big issue seller stands in the city centre from around 9am to 6pm come rain, sleet, snow with nothing but a shop doorway for protection.

Their crime is to have sought refuge in an unwelcoming country. As one of the G20, we should hang our heads in shame that there is such poor provision for the homeless. As individuals perhaps a warm coffee, a sandwich and a smile might be more constructive than sitting in unkind judgement when we can’t begin to imagine the sadness many have faced.

People wear their ‘help for heroes’ badges and wristbands but then walk quickly past the homeless- a high percentage of whom are veterans.

OzzyMadBat · 31/10/2018 07:07

Pan Handler? Are you Grandmaster Flash? Can I be in the furious five please? Grin

giantbanger · 31/10/2018 07:15

pan handler?

Havaina · 31/10/2018 07:19

@reallyanotherone

But this guy is begging, he isn't selling the big issue, so that story's not really relevant.

Much better to donate to homeless charities.

Deathraystare · 31/10/2018 07:24

Of course there are always going to be some that take the piss. There are also some that could not cope mentally with a 9-5 job or whatever. Most of the time I pass them I have no more money than they have, However this stuff about "They will only buy fags/drink/drugs with it" well if they are genuinely homeless there are most unlikely to be saving up for a Berkin bag or whatever are they???!!

hazell42 · 31/10/2018 07:27

How desperate would you have to be before you sat on a stone cold floor and asked strangers for money.
Give him money or dont. That's your choice.
But this persistent myth that beggars are not in need but actually driving round in BMWs or something is bollocks and encourages people to walk on by without helping.
As if they needed encouragement.

ciderhouserules · 31/10/2018 07:29

I used to buy the Big Issue. Always gave more than the issue price. Then one year, just before Christmas, I was made redundant. I got a decent payoff (about £900, not thousands) and I went to local shop (Waitrose! Grin) to see if they had any reductions late on Christmas Eve. There was a BI seller I've not seen before, and I bought the Christmas Issue - was £3, I gave £5. Went in and bought a few well-reduced bits, and when I came out I thought I'd buy another copy for a friend. Gave another £5. The seller came after me, told me that her landlord wanted £84 'tomorrow' (Christmas Day!) for her rent and she had 4 kids to house, and could i help? Angry I stuttered that I had given a tenner, and couldn't do any more, and I'm sorry... and I walked away. The more I thought about it, the angrier I became, and I emailed the BI editor, telling him the whole story.

No reply. I emailed again in about April, and got a reply basically telling me not to pay over the cover price. Angry

I don't buy it now. And I don't trust 'homeless people' either. I'll give to charity if I know that it's well run.

Grandadwasthatyou · 31/10/2018 07:41

Many years ago I had a job which entailed checking the cctv in a large city centre. The cameras are able to zoom right in.
Everyday I was able to watch a "beggar" count the hundreds of pounds he had made and then make his way back to his car nearby.
I'm not saying all beggars are like that of course.

wafflyversatile · 31/10/2018 07:50

They should make people spend a few hours being a beggar before they are allowed to vote. The humiliation that first time, second time, fiftieth time. Sit with a cardboard sign? Approach kind looking people? Pretend you've lost your purse and need a bus fare home? You want to hide away but you have to make yourself prominent. No point in humiliating yourself if you don't get any money.

I definitely need a self medicating drink after that.

Do white middle class women who look askance at beggars give wmcw a bad name?

WizardOfToss · 31/10/2018 08:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

onefootinthegrave · 31/10/2018 08:04

I had to look up what 'panhandler' meant, here's the definition:

panhandler (plural panhandlers) One who panhandles; an urban beggar who typically stands on a street with an outstretched container in hand, begging for loose change. A bum

Pretty judgemental description, OP. Did you know the term referred to someone who was "a bum" before you posted?

Whatever your answer to that, YABU for feeding into the Daily Mail narrative that highlights people who you MIGHT THINK don't need to beg when you don't know their circumstances. As for those who are coming on to give their experience of a Big Issue seller/begger who was a con merchant, you're doing it too. Focusing on the tiny minority that might be in a slightly better position than they are portraying, while ignoring the fact that thousands of people are dying as a result of austerity, benefit cuts, homelessness - and thousands more will if universal credit isn't scrapped.

FFS

onefootinthegrave · 31/10/2018 08:06

WizardofToss it's fucked me off totally as well. On the morning I'm going to bury my nans ashes, whose death was partially as a result of cuts to sevices, I shouldn't have logged on here to this. We need a revolution in this country.

Havaina · 31/10/2018 08:07

Everyday I was able to watch a "beggar" count the hundreds of pounds he had made and then make his way back to his car nearby.

How do you know it was hundreds? Seems unlikely it was hundreds, otherwise, loads more people would do it.

WizardOfToss · 31/10/2018 08:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.