To find this pan handler manipulative

[Daffodildainty]

Lived in my area for 6 years. Was accustomed to occasionally being approached by a casual but quite well dressed bloke for a number of years at the train station asking for money with a seemingly plausible excuse. He took to sitting outside the station with a money jar this summer. I saw him skip off to the off license a couple of times when he was given money. Over the months he’s gradually changed his look - shaving his head , applying a studied look of sadness and bewilderment. Thing is it’s just an act - if you see him when he thinks no one is looking he’s totally perky and switched on. I just think he gives the genuine needy and homeless and particularly the mentally ill on our streets a bad name - AIBU - to be pissed off with him?

[Missingstreetlife]

I used to say no need to beg, give advice on claiming benefits, no one should starve in England. Well now it's not true people do starve, it's government policy that they should.
We are all just a few paydays away from destitution. Begging is soul destroying, but it fits in with a chaotic life style, maybe caused by illness or other misfortune.
How desperate or hopeless would you have to be to think that is your only option. Scandalous, this a rich country, and so is usa, but they create misery to keep taking care of business.

[Daffodildainty]

I used the term pan handler rather than beggar as the latter had pejorative overtones. I give money monthly to a range of charities but not I confess to a homeless one (I’m going to change that- any suggestions). I give money here and there to street people - my point in this case was the individual appears to be cynically exploiting people’s generosity. I don’t spy on him BTW - I walk past him every evening as I exit the station and the bus stop where I catch the bus home is opposite his pitch.
My issue is not with the homeless in general who as a society we should do what we can for but a single person who I think is manipulative

[Patroclus]

Selling the big issue is not the same as begging. Nor does it always mean they dont have some tiny shared house to go home to. If you think its as easy as giving a normal job to somebody with mental and drug problems just dont even try and help.

[Havaina]

But plenty of people (most?) do nothing and content themselves by buying into the ‘all homeless people are scammers’ trope. It’s really, really depressing.

That is depressing, and I think I was in danger of falling into that thinking so this thread has been good at challenging my perceptions. I think people are sometimes so wrapped up in their own lives and problems that they feel they can't let the reality of other people's lives impinge on them.

[Aeroflotgirl]

That is why I don't give to homeless begging, but make a monthly donation to a local homeless charity instead.

[Havaina]

It’s great that you give in the way that you do, of course it is. But plenty of people do nothing, and feel utterly justified in that because they buy into this undeserving poor rubbish.

I agree to do nothing (if you can afford it) is terrible. What I will do is speak to the next homeless person next time I'm in town. I user to just give money and walk away.

[BipBippadotta]

Jesus wept. What a horrendous hateful thread.

[SoyDora]

No more chucking your spare change in, now it's full on access to your account

of course it’s not ‘access to your account’. You still only give what you choose to give. I rarely have cash on me and would happily donate £1 via contactless card. You can choose not to.

[Myimaginarycathasfleas]

BI sellers are not beggars. They have to buy their stock.

What the OP is describing is a beggar. it's up to you whether you give them anything, but it's naive to think they will spend it on anything other than alcohol.

It is heartbreaking to see people homeless in this weather, and it's a relatively recent phenomenon - since the 1980s. There are charities doing excellent work to help people on the streets - Emmaus is one. Street Pastors is another. Give them your money, they'll put it to good use.

[BlowPoke]

Is this a real thread? And all the responses? I thought this point of view died with my great-gran. As others have pointed out you have NO idea what this person's life is like or why his appearance has changed. It says a lot about you that you spend your time covertly observing a homeless beggar trying to trip him up. You need to have a good long think about what is wrong in your life that you would need to tear someone down like that. And put down the Daily Mail!

[BloobCurdling]

I am wary of beggars and you need firm boundaries sometimes, because there are often mental health issues or they are desperate and you can't take everything on. I will give a pound or sometimes if they're outside a supermarket I ask if they'd like a sandwich or anything. Normally it's fine and I'm familiar with several of the beggars in my area. But one older man immediately got up, grabbed my arm and said I was taking him shopping. I firmly said no and for him to stop touching me and walked away.

BUT I hate it when people treat begging as a crime or say "they'll just spend it on booze" or "well why does she have a dog if she can't afford to eat?" Begging is just asking for money, you don't have to give. And if I was in that situation I would want a drink, and a dog to love. Maybe a fag as well. Because when you're at rock bottom you take any comforts you can get.

Homelessness is a shameful disgrace on our country and it is skyrocketing partly because of "austerity" - an austerity that hasn't cost the rich anything. It's also a complex issue that's not just about money, it also involves mental health issues, domestic abuse, addiction, education and the way people are expected to survive when they've been in care, prison or the forces and don't have anywhere to go and can lack some of the skills needed for independence. It's a whole pile of things that the state could and should be better at managing.

[SchadenfreudeUndeadified]

You are quite right OP - only give to the "deserving poor". Make sure they tug a forelock and murmur a respectful "Gor' bless you, Missus" so you know that they appreciate your cold, cold charity.

Some are playing the system, I imagine - it happens everywhere in all walks of life, not just on the streets.

Most are cold, hungry and desperate.

[BooEekCackle]

If you want to help homeless people then you should find a reputable charity that offers shelter and/ or MH services. I no longer give to people on the street. I also ignore most charities and pick a couple and donate an amount to them.

I was yesterday when I saw that poppy sellers had set out a massive table outside Tesco yesterday and now have a contactless machine to donate. No more chucking your spare change in, now it's full on access to your account.

[YesIDidNameChangeForThis]

There was a man who used to beg on the streets of our city. I felt very sorry for him, and gave him money, bought him food. I told friends about him and they gave me money for him, which I passed on. One day on the bus home I was sitting at the back and a man got on. He was identical (and I do mean identical) to the man begging on the street (who had very distinctive looks and hair). He was immaculately clean and dressed in VERY expensive immaculate brand new looking clothes. He walked up the bus and I looked at him..he looked at me, our eyes met and (I did not imagine this - it's a very distinctive moment) a flash of recognition passed between us. He recognised me. He scoweled, turned away and sat in front of me. I spent the entire journey alternating between feeling like a fool, and wondering HOW it could be him. When I got off the bus I had to walk past him, and I accidentally brushed his (very expensive) rucksack as he had left it dangling over the seat slightly..he tutted very loudly at me. I can't forensically 100% prove it was him..but if it wasn't then he had an identical twin wandering the city (and he came from elsewhere, far away). I've never forgotten it, or how it made me feel.

[paganmolloy]

How sad! We judge all BI sellers based on one (assumptive) experience??
I regularly buy the BI. My regular seller was a delightful guy who was never anything but pleasant. He got himself out of the hole he found himself in and is getting on with his own wee start-up flat and bits n pieces. He has attended college to get some qualifications and now has some work coming in. I see him around sometimes and he's always delighted to see me and we greet each other like old friends.
You have a choice - you either give them money or you don't. Most of them don't have a choice. I despair of humanity sometimes.

[HellenaHandbasket]

If social media is to be believed the majority of middle class mothers need gin and or prosecco to get through the average day with kids.

Yet those living on the street are undeserving because they like a drink?

[WhateverHappenedToTheHeatwave]

Unfortunately the small minority of piss takers in any group will give all a bad nane to a lot of people. Especially if you see it first hand.

We had 3 people in town who beg, 2 have been chased off now as they were named and shamed on social media and the local paper. They were not in need of money by any stretch of the imagination, would beg only in the summer months and non raining days and ended up reported to the police many times as they would abuse those who wouldn't donate. Hence how the story came out.

Thankfully because it was reported on our local fb site so much it hasnt affected the lad who begs for money. He may well genuinely need it and it would have been a shame for all 3 to be tarred by the other twos shit actions. However, i have friends who will only donate through charity now because of this and thats completely understandable.

Yanbu to be pissed off. Bear in mind you could be wrong and he could be genuine but no one is unreasonable for feeling pissed off at what they see is a cheeky fucker.

[ForgivenessIsDivine]

I was really glad I read down this thread to see people pointing out that people would have to be pretty desperate to put themselves in this position. 4,700 people are estimated to be sleeping rough in the UK every night. 86% of those are estimated to have experienced some form of mental health issue. These numbers do not take into account families who make homeless applications (26.000 in the first quarter of 2018, 13,000 accepted as being homeless), those housed in temporary accomodation or the hidden homeless who sofa surf or squat or those who are not homeless but struggle to find enough money to make ends meet.

[phoebemac]

Everyday I was able to watch a "beggar" count the hundreds of pounds he had made and then make his way back to his car nearby.

That's a lot of small change to be counting. Or did he pop to the bank to change it for notes?

[phoebemac]

from one weekto another that should have said!

[phoebemac]

@onefootinthegrave - really sorry to hear that . Sadly, there won't ever be a revolution in this country as people are too willing to swallow the poisonous rhetoric that blames those who are seen as "other" for the country's difficulties instead of our inept and corrupt governments.

There are some "professional" beggars out there, but they are usually part of a gang run by someone who is exploiting vulnerable and desperate people.

Checking up on a beggar to see what they do and how they compare in appearance from one week says a lot about you, OP. And none if it is complimentary IMHO.

[Havaina]

Do you tell yourselves that you don’t need to give, you don’t need to be ashamed that we live in such a country, you don’t need to feel any guilt about your comfortable lifestyle because these homeless people are manipulative and don’t deserve your charity? In fact, you can get angry at them! And be absolved from ever giving to them again! Not your problem- result!

You sound very holier than thou. I give to charity but I don't often give to homeless people anymore, as I wasn't sure if there was a racket in my town. From Hazell's article above, I think it makes sense to support grass roots organisations like Streets Kitchens, which I will do.

I also think treatment of refugees is deplorable in this country and have worked for an immigration charity.