To wonder why anyone would buy a puppy through gumtree or the like?

[SummerGems]

I’m not talking so much about why people would buy a puppy from a backyard breeder as that’s a discussion in its own right, but why anyone would log on to their local gumtree, look up the pets for sale adverts, and call the owner and arrange to go and collect a living breathing animal without having first met the “breeder” the dogs or had anything to do with them before jumping in the car and coming home with said puppy, usually at vast expense.

Looking at my local gumtree there are puppies for sale for as much as £2000, and even one for £1700 which is described at being available at “the bargain price of.....” . A bargain? For a living animal? .

Why?

On some level I can sort of see how someone might know someone locally with puppies and end up taking one. I wouldn’t but I can see how it happens. But answering an advert on a buying/selling website and collecting an animal from a complete stranger after handing over often upwards of a grand for what might even be a mongrel masquerading as a genuine breed (i.e. cockerpoo/cavachon/labradoodle and I even saw one described as a pomchi the other day, just why would anyone do that?

ProfessorMoody my beautiful pedigree working dog is from a working lineage with the papers to accompany. I saw her father seperately if that makes you feel any bigger? She is two years old, trained to peak standard, affectionate and beautiful. I'm sorry that me purchasing her from a family home who also work their dogs offends you in some way, but I can assure you I am not naive and she was not a puppy farm product. She is a working dog, in perfect condition, from a wonderful family, now living in a rural village. She's currently snuggled up next to the wood burner after a long walk if you'd like to find something about that to pick apart?

Odd. I've had working dogs for 20+ years and never have I had to resort to purchasing one from an advert.

You do realise that "papers" mean diddly squat?

“And I apologise for also being naive but why is it a red flag for the father to also be there?”

Because if someone is trying to breed quality dogs, it’s very very unlikely that they coincidentally own the dog that best compliments that bitch’s traits.

My DD is always sending me pictures from Pets4homes. I’m not in the market for another dog so I just look at the photos and go ‘ahhhhh, no’. But the broader point is that I got the impression from some of these links that Pets4homes is now a normal ‘route to market’ for legitimate breeders?

Professor, how would you choose a breeder then? If you wanted a particular breed of dog and didn’t spot any neighbours walking it?

I'd do what I've always done. I'd go to as many dog shows as possible and talk to the people there with my chosen breed, taking names of the lines that I liked the look of. Then I'd visit Discover Dogs and chat to the breed specialists there and find out more names of good breeders. I'd contact the breed club and do the same. I'd ask the Kennel Club for their list of accredited breeders and see if any I was already aware of tallied up. I'd join breed specific forums and ask questions.

Then, with my narrowed down list of breeders I liked the look of, I'd contact them with a list of questions, such as if they had any litters planned, what the health tests showed, for example hip and eye scores in my main breed, I'd ask if the puppies were going to be endorsed, I'd make sure that I was happy with EVERYTHING before visiting and going onto a waiting list.

I'd be prepared to wait years for the right puppy and travel as far as I needed to. I have travelled to Scotland, Yorkshire and Norwich from South Wales for the right puppies in the past.

Finding a dog is a long process. This is why people buy them on websites, because they are too lazy and impatient to wait and do things properly.

@flashing beacon
If the dogs hips are so bad it’s having total hip replacement at a year old then there’s no way anyone worth their salt will accept it as a stud dog.
Hip scoring would come out high, not sure what breed you’re talking about but for a lab current median hip score is 9. A dog with dysplasia is going to be waaaaay higher than that.

We bought 2 (common, not super fancy/expensive breed) puppies off the internet (preloved I think) Within the last 10 years.

Originally we really felt strongly about wanting to adopt from a rescue centre, but multiple enquiries meant we realised that we were never going to be approved as when we got them years ago, we were both working out of the home 5 days a week. So we got our puppies via the internet from working farms & they have been great. Our dogs have 3 proper walks a day with a dog walker at lunchtimes when we aren’t about & live the life all very cherished dogs should.

When they were tiny the dog walker came in 3x a day to let them out while we were at work, in addition to the time we gave them before and after work. Our dog walker has been with us since the first, going on 10 years, and they love her so much. They are brilliantly behaved, loving, healthy dogs.

I do understand why the rehoming is challenging with some working families but I do think there should perhaps be more of a middle ground as we would have been very, very happy to have rescue dogs, and give them everything to succeed.. but for the system, which deemed us inadequate adopters. So there’s that perspective too!!

Just realised that i didn’t make it clear that now that they’re not puppies they only have 1 dogwalker walk a day- the other two are done by us ! Haven’t outsourced them that much!

Putting aside proper registered breeders I am pretty shocked that anyone would think that someone who had not had their dog/cat neutered was a suitable person to buy their dog/car from.
In other words, if you were a responsible dog owner, how could you let your dog have puppies? Even if the dog came from a "lovely family" there is just no excuse. 

All that said a friend recently bought a 6m old pedigree type dog off the internet from a family whose other dog didn’t get on with him.

I was very dubious about it - does he have health problems / is he stolen, that’s a weird age to sell on if he’s a good pup / etc etc and urged her to have absolute caution and approach it with these things in mind.... in the end she took him & he came with a serious dose of worms but that’s been sorted out. He wasn’t stolen etc and he may well have a congenital bowleg thing happening that may possibly require surgery depending on how he grows into it (which was obvious to see if you know the breed) but she is totally in love and he makes her happy. He’s a lucky pup, can’t imagine his original owner sorting him out like she will!

Thanks for answering my question seriously, Professor. We have no plans to get a dog at the moment but I have been hoping to get another cat sometime in the future, and presumably your action plan would be somewhat similar for cats too.

I spent a long time looking for the right puppy. I found someone quite far away from me (about 2 hours drive). We went through they lived in a lovely house, saw the mother and all the other puppies, they were very well looked after. They have us lots of information about the puppies and the were lovely people who had devoted a large part of their house and time to making sure the puppies and mother had plenty of space and comfortable sleeping area etc. I had no concerns about the puppy and 7 years later he is still healthy, happy. Those people weren't breeders and they kept in touch after we took the puppy home to ask how he was etc and I sent them pictures. If the puppies are well taken care of then I don't see it as a problem but then the problem is finding the ones who are puppy farming and just in it for the cash.

Sleepy - it depends on the cat. I've always had rescue kittens and farm kittens so haven't needed to seek an actual breeder. Cats aren't really "farmed" in the same way as puppies but there are unscrupulous breeders out there. I'm not a fan of cat shows if I'm honest - I hate the way they are caged and they always look so miserable, so I wouldn't go down that route. I would question breed clubs and cat forums though, and ensure if I was going to buy a pedigree cat that it had the necessary registration with the GCCF.

Thanks Professor! I've wanted a Bengal for a long time, but only know what I've read about them, and after reading this thread, I got very worried about finding one that had been bred ethically. We already have two youngish cats (moggies) so I'm not sure we should be taking on another anyway, but it's good to know what the right steps would be eventually.

Because some people are thick as pig shit clampets

We live in a culture of instant gratification, if someone wants a dog, they want it the and there. Like a lot of things really. Blinded by the tiny fluffy cute pup with no thought for the older, bigger pain in the arse dog that it will become without work and training.

I posted something similar recently ad someone put a comment that 85% of puppies in the UK come from puppy farms. I’m not sure if it’s true but can certainly believe it. Puppies seem to be tv I thing in DSs class at the moment. We got our puppy in the spring after a year researching breeds, going for interviews with breeders, meeting puppy parents to get on their wait list, being on a wait list when their dog was mates, updates through pregnancy, theexciting call we had been allocated one of the puppies, keeping in touch via litter Facebook groups, prper contracts, lifetime support. What you would expect from good breeders. So when another parent said they were contemplating getting a dog I was somewhat surprised when they rocked up at the school gate 2 weeks later with, yes you’ve guessed it a cavalier, apparently the breeder has been very accommodating and met them at a services!!!!! Over the next 6 months I saw this replayed 5 times in Ds class (30 kids). But where I really lost it was a friend who left work on Friday and came back Monday having bought his wife a puppy to cheer her up!!! Made excision on Saturday morning back home Saturday night with some pug mix. Their first dog they later oundnout
Also came from a puppy farm. These days people want instant gratification. A licensing system needs to be in place to buy and own a dog. 6 months from submission of application to buying a puppy (unless exceptional circumstances).

Sleepy - Unfortunately Bengals became popular and fashionable for a time, in part because of publicity and a few celebrities having them. This has sadly led to a number of serious problems for the breed and potential 'owners'.

Unscrupulous people have bred and sold them willy nilly to make a fast buck. People have homed them because they look fantastic and are a bit different, not really knowing just what they are taking on. Bengals, on the whole, are not for the faint-hearted and need particularly experienced, devoted homes. Many need to be kept as indoor cats, and needing huge amounts of stimulation and human company. Often they don't get on with other cats, either in the home or locally. Even people who love cats and have had moggies or other breeds can get caught out. This is why so many have ended up in rescues or permanent sanctuaries. A lot of them appear on the Internet for sale as kittens, including allegedly accidentally bred crosses, or older resales.

You are therefore right to be cautious. A great deal of research and honest reflection is needed before taking on a Bengal or similar high maintenance, closer to the wild, breed. Yes, sometimes they certainly can become a dearly loved member of someone's family, (ideally from a rescue), but most people really are better just to admire them from afar.

Sorry cavapoo not cavalier

“Those people weren't breeders”

Apart from the breeding they were doing...

I love the way people put ‘breeders’ on a pedestal. Here in France the registered breeders are buying in farmed puppies from Slovakia by the truckload and vets are complicit in getting the papers falsified, so I’ll take a crossbreed any day.

@makingmammaries agree. somebody breeding dogs for looks mainly is apparently better than somebody who was very naive about a family pet and responsibly tries to fix the situation instead if just dumping it all on a charity. the mind boggles.

Breeders are anyone breeding dogs, whether they’re doing it because they’re too negligent to prevent puppies arriving, because they randomly decided to make their bitch have one litter, whether they’re breeding to show or work or whether they’re doing it on an industrial scale.

They’re all breeders.

@SleepySofa. Bengals are beautiful but completely not for the faint hearted! They often end up in rescue after owners fail to cope with their behaviour.
@Yura responsibly fixing it is avoiding a pregnancy, terminating it or handing puppies to a charity for free rather than trying to cash in on a “mistake”.