To wonder why anyone would buy a puppy through gumtree or the like?

[SummerGems]

I’m not talking so much about why people would buy a puppy from a backyard breeder as that’s a discussion in its own right, but why anyone would log on to their local gumtree, look up the pets for sale adverts, and call the owner and arrange to go and collect a living breathing animal without having first met the “breeder” the dogs or had anything to do with them before jumping in the car and coming home with said puppy, usually at vast expense.

Looking at my local gumtree there are puppies for sale for as much as £2000, and even one for £1700 which is described at being available at “the bargain price of.....” . A bargain? For a living animal? .

Why?

On some level I can sort of see how someone might know someone locally with puppies and end up taking one. I wouldn’t but I can see how it happens. But answering an advert on a buying/selling website and collecting an animal from a complete stranger after handing over often upwards of a grand for what might even be a mongrel masquerading as a genuine breed (i.e. cockerpoo/cavachon/labradoodle and I even saw one described as a pomchi the other day, just why would anyone do that?

Oh and Professor. Yay to the raw diet. We have many fewer issues now. Plus she hated kibble!

Thanks for the suggestion, Professor. I'll look into that breed too - I do like very chatty and energetic cats but I don't want to take one on that I can't give the best possible home to.

It's amazing that wolferin can't see the irony that her "perfect" pedigree dog is so inbred it has a massive risk of bone cancer and she considers a £600 vets bill normal!

My crossbreed, is nearly 2. I pay £7 a month insurance, and £13 a month for vets scheme (all vaccinations, tick and flea treatments, 6 monthly health check,etc). Other than that he cost £200 to have his stomach pumped after I caught him eating a toadstool as a puppy (got £100 back after the insurance excess). Vets always comment on what a healthy dog he is.

But I'm the irresponsible one because I bought him off a young couple breeding on a small scale and advertising on pets4homes.

Yes, RIP. You are the irresponsible one. You've enabled a backyard breeder. HTH.

I agree with the poster that suggested most people are in the middle. Few have time to research for years. No home is perfect.

As long as you are careful using breeder and follow good guidance from the pet charities then it's not the horror show some on here feel it is.

People don't seem to be up in arms about rabbits etc being sold in pet shops. Plenty of those end up being rehomed.

We got our pup from a breeder. We tried rescue but couldn't proceed as they wanted an older dog and no kids. However if we ever get a second dog hopefully we can rescue.

My allergy ridden, ear infection, stomach infection, arthritis ridden dog is also a cross breed. I'm not sure what the point is?

I assume he was bred by a BYB. He was found dumped in a park at four weeks old. Only he survived out of three dumped puppies. It was xmas Eve when he was found. I guess he and his two litter mates weren't sold on time.

Wolfie, didn't you say you have insurance? How is it all costing so much?! Who are you insured with?

PinkPupZ, this thread was just about dogs, but I feel the same about every animal! I have rescue rabbits as well as dogs (and rescue chickens, and rescue rodents... and if I had more room, I'd bring home even more). My current lovely bonded pair were unwanted children's pets dumped shortly after Easter a couple of years ago... my pair before that were an old couple who lived out their twilight years in comfort. My hamster was a year old when I got her, she'd been at the rescue for 8 months because she bites so nobody wanted her.

And yes I am up in arms about any place that breeds and sells animals when our rescues are at bursting point and need constant funding. The ideal situation would be that nobody would buy a pet if an equivalent could be adopted... and since there are so many rescue centres and networks, including breed specific ones for those who feel they must have a certain type of dog/cat/rat/rabbit/mouse, and some with different sets of restrictions meaning that most sensible people can adopt a pet (they just have to wait a while), I don't see why people are continuing to selfishly and thoughtlessly breed for fun or profit.

Also, rescue pets can be challenging but they can also be easy little angels. My ex-street dog, now 14 years old, has been an absolute delight for the 12 years we've had him. He didn't know any commands but learnt really fast, and while he was noise sensitive (would try to charge at and bite cars), it just took simple training with rewards and distractions to turn him almost bullet-proof. All my 'fluffs' bring me so much joy and I'm so happy I could give them a home.

@moody

Every breeder starts somewhere.

I agree that people pretending to be back yard breeders as a front to selling farmed puppies is abhorrent, but there are reasonable steps that can and should be taken to avoid them, and unfortunately I think that includes avoiding certain crossbreeds completely (cockerpoos, puggles etc).

But for people who intentionally do not want a pedigree (for ethical reasons), but want to be able to select a dog suitable for their needs in order that the dog will be happy, then the internet is a great place to search.

Do not think that your are the only person who has grown up with dogs, and is able to research breeds. I did a huge amount of research to narrow down to cross breed combinations I was interested in, and then whenever a possible litter came up I again read up the specific characteristics of the breeds involved, including passing over a litter that has Clumber spaniel in (now they ARE one inbred breed!!).

I would not hesitate to recommend the breeders my dog came from (they were well informed and caring, and the dam was delightful and their two other dogs were lovely friendly happy things!), however googling a bit (as a result of this thread) it seems there have been no more litters since my puppies and the one litter they bred before (different parents same crossbreed). But I did find a pic of my puppy (his paw markings) from a different ad of the litter that I hadn't seen before (younger than any of the pics I'd seen of him), so I've downloaded that

“But for people who intentionally do not want a pedigree (for ethical reasons)”

Um, what? Which ethical reasons disappear when you cross pedigrees then?

www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/coi-faqs-understanding-the-coefficient-of-inbreeding

We can claim it back or ask vet to claim payment direct from insurance. The cost will put up premiums though.
Crossbreeds can be healthy. So can pedigrees. My girl’s issues have sod all to do with inbreeding or poor breeding.
For me it isn’t just about the health of my pup though but the welfare of the parents and indeed the whole litter.

Why do you keep posting about inbreeding, RIP?

Is it supposed to be a dig at reputable breeders? Because if it is, then yet again you can't really know much, as this is something else that reputable breeders will avoid.

That link doesn’t answer my question... firstly good breeders will go to great lengths to avoid inbreeding, including importing dogs or semen.

But even if you want to believe that all pedigree dogs are inbred, why is it ethically ok for the parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles to be inbred... as long as that one crossbred litter isn’t?

My first dog was an absolute joy, she was an English Springer Spaniel. I saw the advert for her on Pets4Homes, I had to telephone and answer a series of questions before we were invited to meet her. When we drove down to see her she was running about in a small enclosed pear orchard with her brothers and sisters. We met mum and dad who were working dogs and the owner even gave us a demonstration of dad working. When we went inside house there were photographs and trophies everywhere of mum, dad and even the grandparents working and winning awards. The breeder explained that originally the whole litter were to be working dogs but in his opinion early indications had shown our little girl was not suited to working as she was very small and constantly cried to be let inside the house all of the time. It was only our girl who was listed for sale as the rest of the litter had been reserved months earlier (her original buyer had taken the breeders advice and pulled out of the sale as he needed a working dog and not a pet) The breeder made it very clear that even as a pet she would require lots of exercise and stimulation and if we couldn't commit to this then she was not the dog for us. We were shown how to care for her ears and eyes and sent home with lots of information and advice. We were also told to call him if we were unsure about anything at all or needed any more help.

She was a wonderful family dog, was a dream to train and had impeccable recall. We sadly lost her far too young at 10 years of age.

After becoming a dog owner and over the years seeing the increasing media explosion of "designer" and fashionable dogs it really opened my eyes to the horrific breeding practices that take place sometimes. I am embarrassed to say that all them years ago we had no idea that there were so many unscrupulous people selling dogs. It was only down to luck that our Springer had come from such a good home.

When we felt ready to get another dog we felt that this time we should get a rescue dog. Our circumstances had changed and I now work from home part time and our children are now grown up so luckily we fit the criteria of a local animal rescue charity. We adopted our 3 year old little girl last week and she is fabulous, she will need patience and lots of love but she already feels like a member of the family.

We bought our 2 gorgeous girls form Pets4homes. We went to see breeder when they were 4 weeks old feeding from their Dam and picked out the pair we wanted, left a deposit. Visited again at 8 weeks and then collected at 10 1/2 weeks after both injections done. Breeder would not let them go without both vaccinations. They were pedigree and had papers and vets card with vaccination stamps and batch numbers on. She also sent us home with Puppy pack with food, blanket with Dam's scent on for each dog, a toy each, puppy worming medicine and all paperwork in pack including pedigree chart of both Dam and Dad dog. Puppies Fully endorsed. We have never been sorry and love them to bits.

A reputable breeder would NEVER let two puppies from the same litter go together.

@ProfessorMoody

Some of your opinions are ridiculous! I have the time, money, and experience to own a dog. However I wouldn't have the time or inclination to travel the country going to shows and visiting breeders. Why would anyone? Unless you show dogs or want a rare specific breed there is just no need to do that.

We also got our half Bengal kitten form Pets4homes. She is now 6 months old and an amazing. She is so affectionate and must think she is a dog because when we walk the puppies she follows us and then runs ahead and hides and then jumps out at them. She loves climbing and hunting. We have large enclosed garden. We make her wear a bell on her collar but she still catches the odd bird. She has spots on her body must take after her Bengal Mum her Dad was a tabby and she has a few stripes on tail. My adult son picked her after his cat he had most of his childhood died and he hated getting up in morning and no cat around his legs looking for food.

Not true Professor. Two of my girl’s littermates went together. But to a property with land, where they could be separated and trained etc individually, where two adults would be there to care for them and the owners were experienced and didn’t have kids.
No way would I or could I take on littermates though.
Sofia. If people CBA to rescue or get to know breeders they put money in the pockets of unscrutable people who breed without care and or knowledge.

We bought our 2 gorgeous girls form Pets4homes.

No decent breeder would rehome two puppies from the same litter to the same household. Litter mate syndrome is a real thing. Most people advise not getting two immature dogs (so under 18 months or so) together, let alone two of the same the from the same litter.

I'm glad it worked out well for you but almost anyone can get their dogs KC registered, and it's not hard to hand over a cheap blanket, a puppy toy and some papers.

But to a property with land, where they could be separated and trained etc individually, where two adults would be there to care for them and the owners were experienced and didn’t have kids.

But wolfie you have to admit that's different from your average domestic set-up, where the dogs won't be separated for the majority of the time. Of course a working set-up is going to be different to a domestic one.

Sofia - your posts are ridiculous. If you don't have the time or inclination to look for a good breeder, you don't have the time for a dog.

Well ProfessorMoody we are very happy with them both. Breeder wanted to know if we would be showing them and wondered if two would be too much at same time. They are not going to be show dogs they are our beloved pets. We went to buy one but dh fell in love with one dog and son a different dog so we got both. One dog is his and one mine. I am at home all day so they get a lot of exercise and training, go to groomers each week for bathing and are very well cared for. They have pet passports and came on holiday with us. They are wonderful and we have kept in touch with breeder who made us sign contract stating if we could no longer look have them both one or both have to go back to her.

@ProfessorMoody

I've had cats and dogs for over 20 years, as I've said, my mum bred dogs. My siblings all had / have pedigree dogs. Imo though unless you are looking for something very specific there is no need to travel the country in search of a dog.