to be extremely concerned about Facebook ASD/ ADHD support pages being used to encourage parents to assume their kids are transgender.

[taratill]

I am a member of the facebook support groups for ASD / ADHD parents over the last few months/ weeks there is an alarming rise in the number of parents asking for advice because their ASD child dresses as the opposite sex. This seems to be a particularly hot topic this week because of the programme on c5 'Butterfly'

Whilst some of responses are let them be there are an alarming number of references to Stonewall / Mermaids and encouraging them to consider children as young as 4 years old as transgender.

I just want to scream at my computer. The number of parents who truly believe that preventing puberty will help their children be 'who they are meant to be'!

My point is that this is happening and there is a vulnerable group of children who are being encouraged .

Any suggestion that the child should be left till after puberty is generally being berated as 'not understanding the child' and not being a good enough parent!

What on earth can be done to protect these (autistic and vulnerable) children from this move towards transitioning?

As adults they can do as they chose but I feel it is so very wrong that autistic children are being encouraged by members of their own community to be considered as trans rather than just being who they are when they don't fit gender stereotypes.

This article highlights the particular prevalence in the autistic community and the difficulties in determining whether they are transgender or not.

network.autism.org.uk/knowledge/insight-opinion/gender-dysphoria-and-autism-challenges-and-support?fbclid=IwAR34uv01Sbyrim0UAMXR6DMchYvitw2qWrL7XTGsRsZNUYCkYBi0f3olpac

How on earth can some balance be given to this? Of course some of these children may well want to live their adult lives as the opposite sex but some of them may not end up having a choice in the matter as adults are making life changing decisions for them now.

This is dreadful. Perhaps you could post some links?

Very few people understand just what puberty blockers do to a child, both mentally and physically. If they did perhaps Mermaids would receive less official support.

Here are three links from Transgender Trend. The first two are about puberty blockers, and include links to peer reviewed research. The third is TT's response to Butterfly.

www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers-safe/

www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers/

www.transgendertrend.com/butterfly-a-mermaids-tale/

My 5 year old DS with ASD is beginning to question his gender. Not because he thinks he's a girl, he's always been adamant that he's a boy big boy, but because other people keep telling him he's a girl or asking him if he's a girl. He has long hair and likes it in plaits. That's it. But the constant questioning is beginning to take it's toll on a vulnerable little boy and he's starting to doubt himself. It makes me so angry.

I googled "ASD transgender" and got a lot of PDFs of research and academic articles. I can't access them on my phone but you might find them useful.

And there's the recent ROGD research journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330

Knowledge is power and the more work there's being done the better parents will be able to understand the mechanisms at play here.

In my view any medical transition for under 18s is indefensible.

The main Autism charity has spoken out AGAINST self-id at too early an age as it sees it as exploiting vulnerable children - sorry cant remember who or where but remember being impressed that they have taken a stand to safeguard children unlike Girl Guides.... I probably read it in the Feminist section a few weeks ago....Hope you can find it

I wonder how many parents realise that putting their children on a path of blocker, hormones, surgery is condemning them to a life without the possibility of sexual satisfaction.

Children who have blockers before puberty then go on to transition never develop adult functioning genitals.

The genital surgery on 18 year old Jazz Jenning recently used Jazz's under developed child penis and part of his colon to make a neo vagina.

Adult sex change surgery is at least being dong with functioning adult genitals so they have some chance of sexual sensation being possible after the operation.

Also what is the effect of stopping the normal development of the brain from child to adult? Puberty is not only about genitals, it's also about maturing into an adult mentally. Blockers have been found to lower IQ by as much as 8 points.

I think the main thing people don't realise is that taking blockers is putting your child on a pathway to transition (most go on to transition if on blockers, most don't if not given blockers) and that transition after blockers means giving up being a sexually mature adult. Ever.

Would the adults trade orgasms and their sex drive for passing privilege? Do they think that's a fair trade?

I'm going to copy Knicknackpaddyfla's post from another thread as it's worth repeating:

here's also implications for whether full neurological maturity can be achieved if puberty never happens, it's not just the genitals and sex organs that are triggered to grow and change by hormones. There are descriptions of the last Italian Castrato singers up to the late 1800s, and the effect that missing puberty had on their emotional development as well as their physical development, so there is some knowledge of long term effects. The creation of new castrato singers was banned in 1861, which included children who were requesting the process to keep their voice, and is now regarded as another murky aspect of child safeguarding history for the Catholic Church.

I have seen one of the later Jazz Jennings episodes where Jazz's parents explain that because of the medications Jazz will not have any sexual desire, and Jazz's doctor discusses the difficulties with SRS when not enough tissue has formed and developed to be able to use. They also discuss the difficulties with depth of a possible artificial vaginal opening, for the opportunity for sexual intercourse. I know how I would feel about an adult woman with no sense of arousal or much sensation permitting a partner to penetrate them for their own pleasure - this is very, very uncomfortable to think about when it's professionals assisting a legal child into this situation.

I know that's not about autism, but I think it's a point that many people don't understand, and groups of parents especially need to know what they're encouraging their children into / not protecting them from.

We're creating a generation of not only sterile but also asexual kids. It's such a huge price for them to pay, simply to fit in.

Prawn I don't think it is appropriate to link threads to closed facebook groups where people are identifiable and there are even photos of the children in the thread.

Loveyouradvice thank you I am going to look for that and hopefully link that advice on the threads to try to counteract the Stonewall and the Mermaids links

Naivety I don't think the parents realise any of this but I'm quite frightened of pointing these things out using my real name on these threads in case there is a massive backlash. I am also acutely aware that these parents really do want what is best for their children. The message that is being given by media and even schools (one school had told a parent that their child IS The opposite sex - the child is 5!) is so dangerous to children, but particularly autistic children.

Bollocks it's dreadful it really is. I am sorry you are going through this.

taratill I'm a member of some ASD/ADHD support pages also, I mainly lurk though (diagnosis of my DC taking forever).

I just had a look at the main one I'm a member of and I can see exactly the kind of posts you mean.

Total acceptance. I'd like to comment but I imagine I'll get kicked out. I guess I need to think carefully about how I phrase it.

twitter.com/StrawC8ke/status/1055644485017833473?s=19

There's also this aspect of Jazz's future problems.

The poster of this tweet is a transsexual:

"https://t.co/XuheqfnWfv
Jazz Jennings is upset that straight boys don't treat her like other girls. Gee I wonder why? We're not women, that's why straight men don't approach us as women. No we're not "just normal girls", Jazz. We're not girls at all. Men won't validate delusion."

I wonder why some parents with a child with (sometimes pretty complex) additional needs would want to add something else to the mix (as if they haven't got enough to worry about)(.

naievety It's dreadful isn't it. The one that was posted last night had several posters actively encouraging puberty supressants and that the child must be trans. The child in the thread is 4!

@taratill I think Prawn was suggesting you post some of the links she suggested on the Facebook page, not that you posted a link to the group on here.

Fekko I have no idea. It is really challenging being a parent of a child with additional needs though and we are constantly worried about whether our kids are happy and whether they will fit in. These parents mean well they really do. They just believe every word that is being said and I don't even think there are TRAs on these threads people are just believing that kids can change sex!

cavemum just reread and I think you are right ! Apologies Prawn !

Yes, that was my intention. I wouldn't dream of asking you to expose the Facebook group on FWR. It would be dreadful.

If you want to alert parents to the terrible harm done by blockers you're going to have to say something.

When talking to people face to face about the Mermaids agenda, I always start by telling them what Susie Green the CEO did to her own child. That's always been enough to make them totally reconsider the charity, although tbf I thought they share my view. Not many people would want to emulate her.

Prawn I don't know much about this, what did Susie Green do?

I think the difficulty on the facebook groups as much as anything is that some of the parents have already started down the road. It's very very difficult.

Susie Green took her son (now daughter) to Thailand aged 16 to have gender reassignment surgery. I believe the Thai authorities have now changed the law so that under 18s can no longer have the procedure.

Maybe asking questions is the way forward.

Something like "can anyone tell me, if a child goes on to blockers, then transitions, then how do they get a chance to mature sexually? Wouldn't they be asexual as an adult?"

And then if people say they're sure it's fine, or that hormones give them puberty in the other gender, then say but that's not what's happened to Jazz Jennings.

CaveMum Oh my! No wonder she wants to promote this.
I can't understand why she wasn't pulled up for that by social services etc in this country. Surely it's not as simple as you can take your child out of the country to do something (illegal here) to them? How frightening.

naviety that is a good idea.

I just can't believe how frequently I am seeing this IRL on these boards. I think most NT parents would have no idea how often this is discussed and how many children this potentially impacts. Some of them very very young children.

Uuugh its so worrying. Ds is ASD and for a while wanted to be a girl. This was because he is much closer to me than his dad (im sure loves us both the same obviously) and wanted to be the same as me, had long hair, played annoyingly for me with my makeup and specifically make babies. However I explained to him that mums just carry the babies and it takes a man and woman to actually make a baby. The rest was explained that he could still be a boy and do those things. That was the end of the matter and ds has never given it another thought. Other than genuine cases of body dysmorphia, its worrying that misguided parents might think that their child was trans and take harmful steps to help them.

Its like parents who hear their child sneeze and whisk them off the A&E. Hysterical actions. Those poor kids - the adults need to show them the world, the rules and how it all fits together.

My little cousin used to eat the cat food out of the poor a cats bowl when she visited - her parents didn't declare that she was interspecies and have her neutered. We didn't stop her eating the cat food though .

It's my understanding that Susie Green took her child to America to obtain puberty blockers at age 12?

Then SRS surgery at 16, in Thailand.