To think my boss is putting children at risk

[trevthecat]

Name change as this could be outing! I work in a nursery, been there a few months and have already brought up so issues which have been ignored but my main concern is ratios. I've looked online and can't really find a definitive answer so I turn to you good people. Today we had normal nursery children and holiday club together the ages of the 13 children are as follows 5x 1 year olds, 3x 3 year olds, 2 5 year olds, 2 7 year olds and 1 autistic 8 year old (no verbal, potentially aggressive, no training given to any staff) how many staff are absolutely needed by rules? Not how many you think it should be but how many by Ofsted rules? Thanks

No idea about Ofsted Rules but i'd say 4

I think it's 1:5 in nursery and 1:10 in primary so I'd expect 3 members of staff for thise numbers. Not 100% sure tho.

Are any members of staff qualified teachers?

No. Highest qualification today was level 3. We had 2 members of staff in today. For 13 kids.

3x 1yos = 1 adult
2x 1yos & 1 3yo = 1 adult
2x 3yos & 5 older children = 1 adult
You could actually have 1 more 3yo as they need a 1:8

Sounds like you feel the oldest needed 1:1 though?

0 - 2 years - 1 adult to 3 children
2 - 3 years - 1 adult to 4 children
4 - 8 years - 1 adult to 6 children
9 - 12 years - 1 adult to 8 children
13 - 18 years - 1 adult to 10 children

Yes ideally they would but it doesn't happen. The child does have 1:1 at school

I think the ratio for children under 2 is 1:3 and ages 4-8 is 1:6. I'm not sure about 3 year olds!

I would guess 5 staff.

The under 2s must be in 1:3 ratio so you need 2 adults just for them.

3+ can be 1:8

Make an OFSTED complaint

Once they're school age there's no ratio, you could have 1:30 - but that's irrelevant as the under 5s must be in ratio.

You need 2 members of staff for the 1 year olds (ratio 1:3)

You need 1 member of staff for the others.

3 year olds, and reception aged children come under the 1:8 ratio in non-maintained nursery settings. Older children need to be with a suitable person and the setting can decide how to staff. We still use a 1:8 ratio, but rules don’t say we have to. The number of children over 3 was 8 so perfectly within ratio.

The autistic child should have their own risk assessment, if the child is deemed to need one. If he doesn’t normally have a 1:1 in school, he wouldn’t have one in nursery. Even if he did have a 1:1 in school, nursery won’t get funding for him as well. Legally no need to an extra member of staff for that 1 child, though best practice would suggest there is one.

Out of those 3 members of staff, one should be minimum level 3 trained, one should be minimum level 2 trained and one can be unqualified. At least one should have paediatric first aid.

Hope this helps

the answer is probably 3

The ratio for under 2s is 1 to 3
For 3 year olds either 1 to 8 or 1 to 13 depending on the qualifications of staff
For the other 5 children there is no ratio (well 1 to 30)

4 by my calculation, 1:3 for under 1 (poss 2 i cant remember so 2 adults for the babies. 1:4 for the 3 year olds so 1 more adult for them. 1:8 for the rest. There is 1/3 of a person left over from the babies plus 1/4 from the toddlers but that is not enough for 5. Ideally you would want a 1-1 for rge sen child tho.

Just seen your update. That’s dangerous.

I’d speak to your boss and explain your concerns. I’d tell them if it happens again you’re likely to report to ofsted. Then follow through. This cannot have repercussions on your employment as you have a legal responsibility to safeguard children in your care.

I may well be out if date tho, its a while subce u did this.

Fab thanks. Having just 2 of us in today was hell! I knew I was right but head is mangled after today!

It depends what you mean by only having two staff. In the building or just in the room/playground with you? Where you out in community?
Most of the ratios for school only apply to offsite visits as mentioned some teachers have classes of 30-40 kids on their own.

2 staff in the building. At some points only 1 in the room as other making food, toilet break, changing nappies etc

Nursery staff need to actually be with the children not just in the building.

That’s not true Orlande. If the nursery has risk assessments in place to deal with lone working, then ofsted are happy that the ratios are adhered to across the building, and allow for practitioners to leave the room to get food, help with toiletting etc. however this setting wasn’t in ratio.

Out of interest how qualified was the other staff member?

How did each of you manage your lunch breaks? Where was your manager?

Surely you'd need at least 3..anything else a bonus. 2 definitely isn't enough.

2 for the under 1s with 1:3 ratio

Then the over 3s is 1:8.

The other is not qualified. We didn't have a break today started at half 8, finished at 6pm. The owner didn't come in. She often doesn't. Lack of interest I think

I work in care, we often don’t have the right ratios. People call in sick etc and we middle through. If things get really bad though we have an oncall who has responsibility to come in others there’s a pecking system on who has to cover etc.
Isn’t there a similar set up in your place? Senior, deputy, owner etc?

As a level 3 surely it was down to you to get cover or turn parents away?