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Original poster

To think my boss is putting children at risk

52 replies

trevthecat · 25/10/2018 22:24

Name change as this could be outing! I work in a nursery, been there a few months and have already brought up so issues which have been ignored but my main concern is ratios. I've looked online and can't really find a definitive answer so I turn to you good people. Today we had normal nursery children and holiday club together the ages of the 13 children are as follows 5x 1 year olds, 3x 3 year olds, 2 5 year olds, 2 7 year olds and 1 autistic 8 year old (no verbal, potentially aggressive, no training given to any staff) how many staff are absolutely needed by rules? Not how many you think it should be but how many by Ofsted rules? Thanks

OP posts:
ExFury · 25/10/2018 23:02

2 staff in the building. At some points only 1 in the room as other making food, toilet break, changing nappies etc

That’s seriously bad practise even if it wasn’t breaking ratios.

If that adult had to deal with an incident the rest of the kids are basically unsupervised.

I’d be seriously looking for another job if I was you. If something goes wrong an owner so sloppy will do their best to make sure you get flung under the bus as much as possible first.

Maursh · 25/10/2018 23:02

I don't think that you are allowed to work 10 hours without a break - maximum 6hrs

Original poster
trevthecat · 25/10/2018 23:05

The staff member with level 3 isn't me. She wouldn't turn anyone away. We could of had 40 in and she would say it was ok. The owner was fully aware of how many children we had in today and didn't come in. We don't have a system for extra staff. Not many staff member employed there.

OP posts:
AtSea1979 · 25/10/2018 23:08

Maybe the owner had ever faith in the level 3, rightly or wrongly which is why she didn’t come in. Happens a lot in my place. People sucking up to boss and putting up with all sorts of shit.
We don’t have breaks either as it’s classed as wrap around care.

Original poster
trevthecat · 25/10/2018 23:09

I am looking for something else. I took this to help the owner out, knew her years ago. It's been a nightmare since I started

OP posts:
Fettuccinecarbonara · 25/10/2018 23:11

So many things wrong. If the second staff member wasn’t qualified to minimum of level 2, you’re again breaking ratios.

You must have a break of at least 20 minutes as you worked over 6 hours.

Write an email to your manager. Explain your position. See what his/her response is before deciding on whether to report to ofsted.

Look for another job.

MichonnesBBF · 25/10/2018 23:15

I don't normally join in on the complain bandwagon but please phone OFSTED and Local Council (may not be run by them but they do have some say and if nothing else there will be a paper trail, this is to cover your arse as well), ASAP explain it is of immediate concern.

If anything happens to any of those children the owner will throw you both under the bus, this is not worth a child potentially being hurt not worth the rubbish pay you are on and could end in complaints, investigations, loss of job and the first questions will be why did you stay?
why didn't you complain?
why didn't you let the owner know how many children were coming in?
Why didn't you say anything?
You will both be held responsible for any wrongdoing as well as the owner.

BlueSuffragette · 25/10/2018 23:15

Raise a complaint with the manager, she was in breech of the statutory requirements of EYFS. Also failed in good working practices as you are entitled to a break if you work more than 6 hours. If you get no joy, raise a grievance procedure. If it does not improve then inform Ofsted. You can do this without leaving your name.

AtSea1979 · 25/10/2018 23:16

Does the 6 hour rule apply to nurseries as it doesn’t in my setting

minniebow · 25/10/2018 23:17

Reading this has worried me about my children in nurserySad please report to the right people OP! Those children deserve good care, especially the child with autism. Is this a common problem in nurseries then?

Waterlemon · 25/10/2018 23:18

The legal guidance is here, for under 5s although it does also mention holiday clubs, pages 23 onwards

www.foundationyears.org.uk/files/2017/03/EYFS_STATUTORY_FRAMEWORK_2017.pdf

GreenTulips · 25/10/2018 23:22

I agree management would throw you under a bus and that could be your career ruined. Plus there should be guidelines about what happens if there are too many children? Does who Evers in adhere to these? Because if she won't turn people away there's a real issue

Aren't these kids booked in so you know who's turning up and when?

Original poster
trevthecat · 25/10/2018 23:24

I have children of my own and this has opened my eyes completely. I worry now about my youngest who goes to another local nursery. But from another member of staff I have been told this is not the norm at all. I don't want to worry others. I will do the right thing about this situation. Probably not with the owner though as I think it will be ignored. I'm concerned as pp said I'm going to be thrown under the bus if anything happened and I do think about parents paying so much for substandard care. But mainly I think it's just a disaster waiting to happen and a child could end up being serious hurt or something and I have to live with that if I don't speak up

OP posts:
LondonLassInTheCountry · 25/10/2018 23:24

1 year old children 1:3

3-5 is 1:8...

With those numbers i would say 3 at a very minimum x

Original poster
trevthecat · 25/10/2018 23:25

You would think so @greentulips but no, nothing is ever written down so we have to just guess at which children are in on which days

OP posts:
BlueSuffragette · 25/10/2018 23:27

Rest breaks at work - GOV.UK
www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work

Everybody who works at least 6 hours per day is entitled to at least a 20 minute break. That includes all childcare settings.

AtSea1979 · 25/10/2018 23:32

I’ve read it blue but my line of work isn’t mentioned.

MichonnesBBF · 25/10/2018 23:37

@AtSea1979

I am under the impression that yes after every 6 hours there should be a 20 min break offered.

You must work in a private nursery if your not receiving any, I have done this in the past 7-6 shift and only one 1/2 hour break in the middle, it was breaking the law as I understood it but the manager at the time paid us for lunch breaks (on the understanding we could be called back with no complaint) and we were allowed hot/cold drinks in the kitchens of each room anytime.

At the time we thought this was a good deal and to be honest as far as private nursery's go it probably still is.

BlueSuffragette · 25/10/2018 23:40

The rule applies to all employment places of work in UK.

Bowerbird5 · 26/10/2018 00:03

Some of the answers made me laugh!
1-3 in the 1 and under so 2 needed. The rest can at least one member of staff but ideally two.

DoJo · 26/10/2018 00:23

That is wrong on so many levels - should have had more staff in and more of them would need to be qualified (I believe it's one 'manager' and then at least half the other staff, so in this case you should have had at least three staff, two of which should have been qualified).

Report, report, report and refuse to work under those conditions again - you have to turn people away at the door if people have turned up and you are beyond your ratio capacity and you NEED to do it. Aside from the legal implications, you would never forgive yourself if something happened on your watch and it simply isn't possible to supervise that many children safely under those circumstances.

Nodancingshoes · 26/10/2018 07:10

You'd need 2 staff just for the one year olds! The answer is 4 but preferably 5 cos of the SN child

Nodancingshoes · 26/10/2018 07:13

To the person who asked whether the 6 hour break rules apply,it's yes. Nurseries are not excempt. You must have a 20 minute break every 6 hours you work by law

SnuggyBuggy · 26/10/2018 07:17

Are all these kids in the same group? I wouldn't want that for my 1 year old.

OhTheRoses · 26/10/2018 07:20

Do the parents know?

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