to think you should pay Mountain Rescue expenses?

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If you are dense enough to head off into the Cairngorms without a map, compass and with only an app on your phone to navigate with?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-45963727

Mountain rescuers spent 6 hours searching for these numpties who were 17 miles from where they should have been.

I suppose it depends on the app, but in general, why would you need a signal for an app to work?

If you're using that map with GPS (as opposed to literally just as a map) then you need a GPS signal to identify your location, presumably. Or does GPS cover everywhere without fail (genuine question)?

I know there was a time when Google navigation didn't work on roads where there was no signal, which was a big problem in the US, but nowadays you can download maps. I permanently have the whole of South-East england installed on my phone.

That's great and I sometimes use a phone when I'm in the mountains but there is no way I would rely on one even if you can use a map app off line. I have learned to my cost that phones can over heat in hot weather, freeze in cold weather and battery life can fade fast.

I use mine as a quick check but if you are going into a mountain region you should be able to use a map and compass.

I tend to take the relevant map and have that in a side pocket of my ruck sack and a laminated sheet ( or sheets) with a marked out plan of the hike handy in my pocket. I always have a compass in my pocket and a spare one in the rucksack.

The phones are a fantastic invention and have some great mountain apps but I generally just use them for pictures while I'm on the hills.

No if the circumstances are beyond the persons control. i.e. They checked the weather,had suitable clothing, knew where they were heading etc. Then perhaps they had a fall,became ill whilst out, same if it happened to someone they were with . Or perhaps due to sudden, unexpected changes in weather.
But an absolutely yes if they were ill equipped.

But where does it stop? Do we charge people who have to use the NHS due to smoking or obesity related illnesses which are also self inflicted?

No doubt these people are idiots and I have friends in the mountain rescue service (not the Cairngorms) who despair of them, but the service is there for a reason and unfortunately idiots are part of the reason.

This explains why you should never rely on GPS when hill walking. And yes people have to be rescued because they do rely on it.

www.mountainsafety.co.uk/Nav-GPS-Mobile-Phone-GPS-Apps.aspx

Or you could just learn to use a map and compass, put the map in a map holder round your neck and not have to worry about your bloody phone or some gadget that can run out of batteries, become damaged in a fall, lose its signal, etc.

People who want people to pay for their accidents have probably not left the safety of their sofa.

Losing your footing on a ridge or being caught in a sudden, unpredicted snowfall is an accident.

Going out onto the hills in flip flops or without a map isn't an accident.

And neither is going out with just a phone and then finding you run out of charge, drop and break the phone, or it stops working because of the weather conditions.

Or you could just learn to use a map and compass

This was one of the most useful things I learned at school. We were taken out to a local nature reserve, dropped off in remote spots by the ranger in his land rover, and had to make our way back to school.

This was one of the most useful things I learned at school. We were taken out to a local nature reserve, dropped off in remote spots by the ranger in his land rover, and had to make our way back to school.

Was it an actual learning activity or a dastardly plot by the teaching staff that didn't quite go as hoped?

I use a paper map and occasionally use the OS app as a double check of where I am if I'm not sure. For one thing phone screens are small and either the features are tiny or you can only see a small area.

I do agree to a point, but how would you price it anyway - I'm sure many people who genuinely are helped then go on to raise money for mountain rescue. I would like to see a much higher profile campaign to explain what you need to go walking in the hills - I've encountered kids in theme park ponchos in the Peak District with snow on the ground, no gloves, no hat (I've given spare gloves and a foil blanket to a girl and instructed her father to get her somewhere warm asap, I think I was so authoritative he obeyed and carried her back down!)
I carry all kinds of "just in case" stuff in winter, a bit less in summer but even then I have a foil blanket, compass, map etc despite knowing where we are quite well!

CMRT themselves say they don't mind rescuing people, they don't judge and they appreciate sometimes people don't realise what they are undertaking.

I think you ought to have to take out insurance before doing this kind of activity to cover any mountain rescue fees One of our biggest problems as a society is obesity. Caving, climbing and hill walking are all excellent ways of getting exercise and improving fitness. So let's see how many barriers we can put in the way, shall we?

One of the cave rescue organisations reported the rescue of 3 youths who had been stranded when all their torches failed "They were poorly equipped for the trip with inadequate lighting and clothing. Only one had a "helmet" - a rather fetching stainless steel kitchen colander with a broken string chin strap! They did not seem to have been put off caving but did agree to go better equipped next time." That seems to me the right approach - make sure people aren't deterred from being adventurous in the outdoors by paying in advance or on rescue, but teach them what they did wrong so that they maker better choices next time.

Mountain rescue teams always say they don’t want this because they worry that then people wouldn’t call them as they’d be worried about the cost.

Oh and someone nearly died in the Lakes recently (was missing for days) because his map blew out his hand. Maybe if he’d had a GPS device he’d have been ok, think he broke his leg while trying to find his way down with no pay iirc.

I always take a map, always have a compass (never had to use it) and now always have OS maps on my phone and a battery pack and lead. Decided on having maps on my phone since the above incident.

Oh and someone nearly died in the Lakes recently (was missing for days) because his map blew out his hand. Maybe if he’d had a GPS device he’d have been ok, think he broke his leg while trying to find his way down with no pay iirc.
This is one of the reasons that I have a map in my rucksack and then a laminated photocopy (a4 size) or work with.with y intended route marked our. OS maps are to cumbersome to work with but are needed on a big mountain or hill day but for the actual walk is easier to have an A4 size sheet in your hand.