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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think a man who has sex with a woman asleep is rapinhg her

41 replies

abacucat · 20/10/2018 17:08

You can not consent to sex if you are asleep. And having sex in the past does not mean you consent aitomatically to sex for ever more with that man.

OP posts:
OolongSlayer · 20/10/2018 17:11

YANBU OP, of course it is, are you okay?

LucieMorningstar · 20/10/2018 17:13

Yes I agree with you. Even if a husband did it to a wife. Do you need help op?

Fimat · 20/10/2018 17:15

Of course and I know of one case in Ireland where a man was prosecuted for doing this to his girlfriend who he lived with.
Hope you’re ok.

DanSullivan · 20/10/2018 17:16

Yes, you are 100% correct there. —I once fell asleep during sex—

Is everything alright, OP? Do you need some support?

Rixera · 20/10/2018 17:16

Legally it's rape.

EwItsAHooman · 20/10/2018 17:17

YANBU. I know something this happened to and she got lots of remarks from his friends and family about it not being rape because she would have woken up if it was and they were married anyway so why did it matter Hmm

OpiningGambit · 20/10/2018 17:17

Well, yeah, of course it's rape? Legally, ethically... everything -ly.

What's your real question OP?

Iscreamforbenandjerrys · 20/10/2018 17:18

Dp and I have discussed this as I like being woken up in that way and have a high sex drive. I have given my consent in advance and have told him i will tell him of that consent changes. I also know he would stop if he got even the slightest hint I wasn't comfortable with it.

However that is me and not you. If you haven't had that discussion and haven't given your absolute, enthusiastic consent then it is rape. Are you okay? Are you in a safe place?

gamerwidow · 20/10/2018 17:18

Of course it is you can’t possibly give consent if you’re asleep.

Iputthescrewinthetuna · 20/10/2018 17:20

The laws have changed now haven't they. It isn't 'rape is needing to say no'
Rape is when consent hasn't been given.
Being asleep, consent cannot be given so therefore it is rape.

GreenLantern53 · 20/10/2018 17:21

see ive known of partners to wake each other up with sex so dont think its always rape.

gamerwidow · 20/10/2018 17:27

GreenLantern53 that’s different as Iscreamforbenandjerrys post shows it is possible for consent to be given in advance. However if someone does this to you and you haven’t discussed it and said you like it then it is rape.

GreenLantern53 · 20/10/2018 17:29

it wasnt discussed beforehand. but i guess it depends on the people

NotANotMan · 20/10/2018 17:29

If not expressly consented to in advance then yes it is rape, always.

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/10/2018 17:31

it wasnt discussed beforehand. but i guess it depends on the people

No it doesn't. sex without consent is rape. Every single time. If people decide to consent in advance to this, there is consent. If there isn't, it's rape.

SpoonBlender · 20/10/2018 17:34

We have a standing consent that we renew verbally now and again. Without that, it's rape.

We're also both sensible enough that we don't wake each other up when the other has had a hard day/long day next. It's worked out very well for over 20 years now.

killingmesoftly70 · 20/10/2018 17:48

We are people - persons with a soul, a voice and a mind. We are not objects, we don't 'belong' to someone as their possession to use whenever they like. When you are asleep, you are unconscious, therefore there is no consent. The person is treating the sleeping person purely as an object and nothing else.

Ravenesque · 20/10/2018 17:51

Yes, it is rape as everyone here has said.

Too long a story to give all the details, but one Christmas Eve I let a male friend stay over because I was so close to the pub a group of us had been drinking in and it was f cold. Supposed to sleep on my sofa but he said he was cold could he please, please sleep in my bed with me. I made it clear that we were just sleeping there was to be nothing else and also reminded him that he had a girlfriend. He wanted something more but agreed that there would be nothing, just sleep.

I woke up to feel his penis jabbing at me while he tried to pull down my pyjama bottoms - yes I was sexily clad in brushed cotton pyjamas - and had a shit fit. Threw him out of the room and back to the sofa which was frankly too kind of me, I should have thrown him onto the street, but I had a hammer under my pillow - I lived alone I wanted the hammer just in case because I was worried about burglars - and the next morning he pretended that it had all been just a jolly laugh.

I didn't do anything about it other than tell some mutual friends that I never ever wanted to see him again or be near him again. None of us treated it like attempted rape and I felt like it was my fault for giving into him sleeping in my bed, but I was wrong. Would I have gone to the police if I saw it then as I see it now? Very probably not, but what he did was try to rape me because like some/many men he had no notion of what consent is. You're in bed with someone then you can fuck them because you're in bed with them. It stays with you.

If something has happened to you, then yes, you were raped and please find someone to talk to, if there is no one you know then a rape crisis centre.

Llanali · 20/10/2018 17:56

I don’t think it’s always rape and I don’t agree @killingmesoftly70

My husband wakes me like this sometimes and he is not treating me solely as an object nor am I when I wake him like this!

As with a PP we have discussed it in the past and agreed it.

If you haven’t agreed it then yes it’s rape.

AnyFucker · 20/10/2018 18:00

Yes, and the law agrees with you

Everything ok, op ?

Guavaf1sh · 20/10/2018 18:02

It obviously isn’t always rape as it depends on how the relationship is and if both people are happy for that to occur. I am happy for that as well, as other posters have said

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/10/2018 18:05

It doesn't matter if I'm happy or not. What matters is whether there is consent or not. Pre-existing consent? Fill your boots. No pre-existing consent? Rape.

AnyFucker · 20/10/2018 18:06

Do people saying "it isn't always rape" seriously think that op is asking the question about hunky dory nicey nicey wake up sex ?

Idontbelieveinthemoon · 20/10/2018 18:08

Yes, it's rape. Consent isn't presumed unless you've had a very specific conversation in a very specific way with your partner (as Icecream shows above, though even that could be a grey area).

PurpleDaisies · 20/10/2018 18:09

You’re right. Look at the cup of tea consent analogy video.