Was I unreasonable to redecorate?

[wlevrta]

We have been in our rental property for almost three years.

However, we will be moving out in January/February.

We have redecorated the rental and I'm just hoping the landlord is going to be okay with it.

For context. The landlord bought the property as it was and made no improvements himself when he purchased it. The dining room wall was bright green! There was gaps between the laminate and the skirting board in the hallway. The bathroom taps were rubbish and water didn't come out very well. The toilet flusher didn't work properly.

It's not his home that he rents. He has numerous properties he rents out and it's his full time job.

Everything we have done to the property, imo, has improved it and everything has been done neutral.

We have put in a brand new bathroom and flooring.

Painting in the rest of the house, etc.

Do you think this will be a problem? He seems like a reasonable guy

There’s a big difference between landlords with an emotional connection to the property and those with loads who keep them in ‘basic’ condition. Most people on mumsnet can’t imagine a 40 year old bathroom and have emotional attachments to their properties so are giving you worse case scenarios. Clearly, you absolutely should have asked for permission but I’d think it’s really quite unlikely the LL will complain.

Our tenant has installed a log burner and replaced the carpets but she asked first, wouldn't have been happy if she hadn't checked first. She's been in the property for 10 years and is a good tenant, we charge her below market value as she keeps the house immaculate.

If you've improved it I'm sure he'll be more the happy. Most landlords are happy with people decorating if it's neutral and has been done well. I wouldn't worry and I work in rental properties. If he tries to claim your deposit just dispute with the DPS and explain how you've improved it including the new bathroom. They'll make the final decision.

Clearly, you absolutely should have asked for permission but I’d think it’s really quite unlikely the LL will complain

What bs. We can all imagine it. Are you somehow under the impression landlords are fuck wits?

She will need to prove all the work is done to standard, that she has not damaged anything, that she has all thr guarantees in place, and have an independent verify it all, if she cannot prove it, and I suspected something dodgy I would sue her to make good. In addition if I felt the floor wasn't hard wearing, I'd sue her to replace it properly.

Honestly though I'm struggling to believe this is real. That someone actually rented a property. Signed a contract, and then redecorated, changed the flooring and installed a new bathroom. Without asking permission. It's mind boggling.

You have taken a big risk replacing something as major as an entire bathroom without permission. You know that now though.

I have four rental properties. Any major work to be done on them (especially if it may involve electrical work and plumbing) has to be done to the right standards and may need certificated.

A bit of repainting is one thing, and most landlords would give permission for that. Nothing more major though.

I hope for your sake that your landlord is reasonable and sees this as an improvement. Hopefully he will, but no guarantees. You have put yourself in a silly position.

A tip: Only spend major sums of money on a property you own. I would bet that you have spent at least a couple of grand (or more) on this dream bathroom that you will soon no longer be getting the use of. In addition, you don't seem to care much if he decides to keep your deposit.

You have literally been flushing money down the toilet.

I think you’ve just given your landlord permission to keep your deposit.

Regardless if if it’s improved it (I think you’re bonkers spending money on the bathroom). You didn’t have permission so you should have checked first.

@Jux, what kinds of things did she do?

I really hope you mean you ask the landlord of the house, in writing and get a written response. If not you are setting yourself up to lose the deposit.

No, I mean precisely what I say. We have a lettings agent who works on behalf of our landlord, who happens to be the church commissioners for the Church of England. Funnily enough, and this will come as a surprise to one so obviously knowledgeable as you, they don't actually deal with tenants on a one-to-one basis. They also don't make individual decisions about those tenants. They farm all of that out to a lettings agent.

Therefore, yes, I mean I ask the agent. And yes, I get her response in writing.

Any other tips you want, or do you just try to teach other people their business?

Valasca I don't understand your post as a response to anything I've written. Was it meant for me?

A brand new bathroom and flooring must have cost £5-10k, OP is obviously not short of a few bob, that could have gone on a bigger house deposit or OP could have bought a house sooner

they don't actually deal with tenants on a one-to-one basis. They also don't make individual decisions about those tenants. They farm all of that out to a lettings agent.

From the info I just read, they also only look after the fabric of the building, so garden and decorating are for the tenant to organise, so utterly pointless you writing to the lettings agent.

Floof following from LRD’s post, I use a property agent to handle my rental property as we are in the USA and the house is in the U.K.

Our tenants only communicate with the agent, who then passes requests etc on to us and replies to the tenant with our answers.

We never have any direct communication with the tenants, it’s part of the agreement with have with the agent.

Op, start getting your paperwork in order. Make an appt for the landlord to come round and view. Quickly. Show him what you've done to his property and show him the paperwork and guarantees, certificates etc.

There is no point delaying it any further, get him in and show him.

As a pp said, In future do not make unpermitted changes to a rental, it is not yours and you need to legally comply with the contract you have signed.

I work in the property management dept for a letting agent. It is stipulated in our AST that tenant are not allowed to paint, etc without prior consent from the landlord.
On the occasion we have had tenants get in touch to ask about repainting a room, we then go to the landlord and advise of the tenant's request (colour, where to be painted, etc)
More often than not the landlord will give consent as long as the tenant agrees to return it to a neutral colour prior to move out or the cost of decorating to put it back will be deducted from the deposit.

On the rare occasion we have had a tenant want to carry out larger works (putting in a shower over a bath for example) we ask them to submit 3 quotes for the work and put them to the landlord so he can see that the work will be carried out by professionals to a decent standard.

I don't understand why a tenant would ask their landlord if it is ok to carry out work at a property before doing so.
You have a whole list of things "wrong" with the property when you moved in, but yet to chose to move in without any works being done, making it a condition of the property. No one made you stay once repairs, etc weren't carried out

A brand new bathroom and flooring must have cost £5-10k,

I did mine for not much over £1k.

Avoid the salespeople / bathroom showrooms. Go to the shops the tradespeople go to (probably easier to find in big cities). Shop around for bargains for flooring.

Helps if your bathroom is tiny!

Do as much as you can yourself (e.g. decorating).

It looked amazing too! Sold the flat to a trendy young media couple.

OP - well you have heard what everyone has said - all you can do is has been suggested and hope the landlord is reasonable. We all make stupid mistakes sometimes and I think your intentions were good.

Put it behind you, learn the lesson, enjoy your new home when you get it and keep it as a story to tell your friends/kids/ grandchildren etc!

In case anyone's interested, the shop we went to was one of the bathroom shops at the top end of Holloway Rd.

There was no showroom, just stuff piled up to buy. The toilet was £45! The most expensive thing was the cool bath tap, that was a little bit more than the bath IIRC. I can't remember how much they were, but I can't see me spending more than £200 i on a tap.

This was a few years back, I wonder if it's still there?

I don't know how it's possibly to spend £10k on a bathroom, what do you spend it on?! Unless you're talking about plumbing everything from scratch?

I can't believe how nasty people are being!
A LOT of people will be renting instead of buying maybe forever, people are going to want to live in a nice, comfortable environment. Of course OP should have run past LL, but it astounds me that people think she has to be crapping money when she wanted a nice bathroom and got one put in. Like she says, she thought she would be there for a long time so why wouldn't you? On balance, the LL will probably be over the moon that his house has been done up although may be one of the more cretinous ones who will see his chance to keep the deposit too and will call OP out on it. Thats the part where, fair enough, she maybe should have asked. But this way she gets to live in a nicer environment! I have spent money on rental properties to make them look good because it is my home. Not everyone is willing to live with decor they don't like because they are renting. Some of us will probably always be renting, or (shock horror) may actually prefer to rent.
This is the first post Ive read on mumsnet in a while and can't quite believe the lack of understanding! Calling her stupid? and naive etc? I think that shows a much worse character flaw. Pipe down and be constructive. Im outta here!

We done ours for about £1k but we done it ourself, you can't do that if it is not your house, its the tradespeople that cost the money. DH did the plumbing, tiling and basic electrics, this was just before they changed the rules about electrical work certification, now you can barely change a lightbulb yourself. OP would have got tradesmen in to do it I would hope as it was not her property, costs soon mount up.

Actually it's not just renters who can't do things without permission if you have a mortgage you may have to ask their permission do major alterations.

Bloody hell, OP, you've got a hell of a pasting here. Of course you were idiots to do this but you admit that.

It sounds as if you've got a ll who doesn't give a shit about anything except his income. Unlike all the paragons of virtue posting here who are all apparently exemplary lls. If he thinks repairing the boiler himself is acceptable, he's clearly not worried about the standard of workmanship.

I love the suggestion he'll want it returned to its original state - good luck with sourcing a peach suite and limescale encrusted taps! I anticipate the scenario will be that he'll feign anger, hold on to your deposit and rub his hands in glee at the increased rent he can now charge.

You were stupid and clearly have more money than sense but the world isn't going to come crashing down on your head. Please, please let us know what happens - I've always wondered what happened to the poster whose vendors ran away with her bathroom.

He will definitely keep your deposit claiming he needs it to undo the work you’ve carried out.

OP don't worry about it. I know lots of professional lls and they would all love a tenant like you.

I doubt he even remembers what bathroom suite was in, or the colour of the walls. If he says anything just offer to restore the property to its previous state.

Ah shit OP, I really feel for you.

I can’t understand why you didn’t ask the LL but you will learn from this mistake.

I hope it all goes well for you.

I'm glad to find this again. Going to read the rest of the thread from this morning. I would never spend my money on someone else's house.