Was I unreasonable to redecorate?

[wlevrta]

We have been in our rental property for almost three years.

However, we will be moving out in January/February.

We have redecorated the rental and I'm just hoping the landlord is going to be okay with it.

For context. The landlord bought the property as it was and made no improvements himself when he purchased it. The dining room wall was bright green! There was gaps between the laminate and the skirting board in the hallway. The bathroom taps were rubbish and water didn't come out very well. The toilet flusher didn't work properly.

It's not his home that he rents. He has numerous properties he rents out and it's his full time job.

Everything we have done to the property, imo, has improved it and everything has been done neutral.

We have put in a brand new bathroom and flooring.

Painting in the rest of the house, etc.

Do you think this will be a problem? He seems like a reasonable guy

Op...he could in theory sue you for this. You really should have asked him. He could claim for the money to put property back as was even if its better now. Think you need legal advice.

He sounds like he won't notice but you've essentially gone the wrong way about doing a really nice thing and it could cost you more than the cost of the work if he objects or there's a hitch.

Can understand not wanting a skanky bathroom though, I rent atm (am in the middle of buying) and would take my bathroom flooring up & replace many fixtures in an instant if it was sensible to do so!

Considering he hasn't done any inspections I would assume he is just in it for money and therefore will keep your deposit. You just need to really hope he doesn't come after more (hopefully too busy!).

Im a bit gobsmacked to be honest. Sounds like you have a partner so not one but two adults thought that it was a good idea. As PP have said your about to go into the biggest financial commitment of your life, make sure you start reading contracts

I think you need to do a before and after pic so we can judge

Agreed - before and after pic please OP!

I'm a landlord with a few different categories of property. I would be really fucked off if this happened in a high end property as everything is carefully chosen and installed in a particular way. In your case, as long as you have replaced like for like and it is all fitted properly, I really wouldn't care and actually be very pleased. I have had tenants change taps, bins, washing machines and hobs (nothing as big as a whole bathroom) and have thanked them and not taken anything from deposit. I am a reasonable person and why would I keep money from a deposit if the tenant has saved me money and time and improved my property. The times I have claimed from deposits are when the tenants have left things in a poor state that cause me trouble.

Hopefully your landlord is a reasonable person and it will be fine. I would suggest speaking to them now to let them know what you have done and give them a chance to inspect. They may just say it is fine and then you don't have to worry any further.

It isn’t your house to change without permission! Bathrooms and decor are such personal decisions and you can’t assume it will be suitable. Hopefully he’ll be pleased. Worst case, he makes you reinstate it to similar style as before.

We’ve just bought a new house. The vendor redid the master ensuite in January. I’m sure many people would say it looks nice, however, I hate the tiles they chose, the bath is ugly and the vanity unit is too small for the room. I’m currently changing it!

we ask the lettings agent and we make sure she agrees with what we're doing

I really hope you mean you ask the landlord of the house, in writing and get a written response.
If not you are setting yourself up to lose the deposit.

Lost5stone The LL can't 'just keep the deposit'. There's a legal process to go through before he can gain access to a tenant deposit and he has to prove he has a right to it.

Meh from the sounds of it he might not even notice it's a different bathroom.

Paint that wall green again and cross your fingers.

Just to add that when a tenant contacts me to say they would like something changed I assess whether it is preference or need. If the item is broken/not fit for purpose I arrange for it to be replaced (or the tenant arranges and I pay). If it is just that the tenant doesn't like the colour or something (like a pink bath) then I give them the choice to pay for it themselves. I had someone want a big fridge freezer which I said no to paying for because the current one is perfectly fine. I had a tenant who didn't like the, fine but admitted basic, alarm system in the house so I paid half the cost to upgrade it.

Like I said hopefully you Landlord is a reasonable type.

I must say, I struggle with reconciling your statement that you love it there with that long list of problems.

When I was a student, we repainted the kitchen in our rental. Even as a bunch of very naive 18 year olds, it never for a moment occurred to us not to ask for permission first.

Pigs, there’s also a legal process (called the tenancy agreement you sign) that says you cannot just rip out existing fixtures and install new ones without written prior permission. The landlord need to show that inspections on authorised works are going to cost him x and y. And righting wrongs will cost z and w. He does not need to carry out the work first and show receipts.

Surely if the house isn't up to scratch the landlord has to pay to make sure it is, it sounds like a hovel, the rent must be very cheap

As an aside I didn’t realise that people that rented properties are
not capable of decorating, getting bathrooms or anything else fitted
or choosing good workmen to do these jobs and that people that
own properties are all experts at all this.

It's not about finding good workmen, anyone of us could be conned by a workman. Even me and I know a hell of a lot about the trades.

It's the insurance, the bloody cheek, the 'll may have a set of trades he calls on to do work (yeah maybe not either) the naivete of tenant thinking it's a good idea, the waste of money, the probable loss of deposit, the possibility of being sued for more still.
All for a bathroom put in 6 months ago, after living with the old one for 2 and 1/2 years already.
Imagine the house had burned to the ground, once the insurance company had discovered the new bathroom, all theyhad to say was , could have been dodgy wiring in the new bathroom we are not paying.

If this is not a wind-up and what you say about the landlord renting out the property in piss-poor condition is true then... there is every possibility that he’s a bit greedy and he’ll be eager to sue you for the changes that you’ve made to the apartment to make some money. Depends on who he is as a person.

You need to tell your landlord, you need to see how he takes it, and then if necessary, deal with the fallout if there is any. Good luck, OP. It may also help to get an inspection, so you can show your landlord on paper that you have not caused damage to the property’s plumbing, which should be his biggest concern.

In the majority of tenancy agreements there is usually a part that states that if you wish to redecorate etc you should obtain the Landlords permission. Hopefully you had a property viewing before moving in, and saw the bathroom and the ghastly green walls, why didn't you mention how you felt. You could have asked if he would mind if you redecorated. I know you envisaged that you'd be renting for a long time, but making major changes like putting in a new bathroom would really need permission.

Talk it over with your Landlord, I hope he's as genial and laid back as you say he is x

Hopefully OP your landlord will be fine with everything you have done.

We rented a property for 15 years. The house badly needed decorating when we viewed it plus the loo was absolutely disgusting and the bath wasn't much better. We liked the house though, it was in just the area we wanted and the landlord was happy for us to have our dog and cats there.

We asked could we replace the bath, sink and toilet, lay new flooring and tiles etc (DH fits bathrooms) and could we decorate the house. Landlord agreed it was fine.

We stupidly didn't get it in writing that the landlord was happy. We decorated every room, all except one more than once in the 15 years.

Our landlord didn't spend a single penny in the years we lived there. If we mentioned anything - the cooker packed up, the carpet in the living room was threadbare - he wasn't interested. Unless we wanted to live in a shit hole we had no choice but to spend money.

He came round once in all those years, did a tour of the house and said he liked everything we had done.

When we gave our notice he suddenly got really stroppy and said he had not agreed for us to decorate or change the bathroom or lay laminate flooring etc etc. Quite how a house wouldn't need decorating at least once in 15 years I don't know.

Anyway we didn't get our deposit back - he surprise surprise had not put it in a scheme. We were going to take him to court for it but he threatened to claim for all the things we did and we could not be bothered with the hassle

On a more practical note, if any electrical work was done (new plugs, moving lights/fans, installing power showers, etc.) , you also need to produce a NICEIC certificate -- it would be illegal for him to rent out again without having this paperwork. If he doesn't have it, he'll have to fork out for an inspection. Also if you changed the light, you need to ensure the new ones are in the right category for bathroom use. If any new pipework was installed, it will be extremely useful for him to know where the pipes now pass for any future work.

Is it the same colour suite as if so he will probably thank you. Why didn't you just ask him tho? I painted my place magnolia again only because of having previous landlords withold deposit for scuffs. I included paint receipt in my giving notice letter. Better £13 on paint than £1200 deposit up the swanee.

It depends, if you genuinely have improved the flat, then great. We are landlords, and if someone improves the quality, does stuff that might be asked of future potential tenants anyways, we'd be delighted that you saved us money.

You can always offer to paint the wall the disgusting green again before you leave if it's an issue, I bet he'd object!!

We like it when tenants take care of the home and make it their own, painting neutral colours would always be fine by us.... painting a ghastly green, we'd not be so happy about! Replacing a perfectly fine bathroom, again not ok with, but if it needed done anyway, fine!

I can't tell if this is a joke post or not.

@wlevrta I'm a landlord and I'd be furious too. If you were my tenant these would be the reasons I'd be angry:

• you removed MY bathroom without my permission
• you installed a new bathroom without my permission - I'd have no idea of the value of it, what it looks like, etc. This could affect future rentals, I could need to replace it to something more appropriate, etc.
• you could have invalidated my insurance
• and you did all of these things without having the decency to ask.

If one of my tenants wanted to repaint a room I'd happily let them. If they chose to paint it a non neutral colour I'd ask they paint it back after their tenancy. I'd deal with this in writing.

If one of my tenants had an issue with the flooring I'd discuss it with them. However, they agreed to rent the property as is. If they took it upon themselves to replace the flooring without my permission I'd be cross - you have no idea what my future plans are for the property, how that could impact upon my insurance, if I had plans to reuse the flooring somewhere else. I'm assuming you didn't keep the old flooring?

If one of my tenants had issues with the taps and felt the water pressure wasn't great I'd get a plumber to investigate and I'd probably pay for new taps / to sort the pressure. Same with the toilet.

It doesn't matter if your landlord is a professional landlord or is renting his former home - you've hugely overstepped and have made assumptions. I'd recommend you don't do this in other properties you rent.

I've rented out two properties op and I'm actually really shocked the pair of you pretended to own this and renovated,

I'm not sure how I'd react, but I'd want guarantees for all the work, documentation etc, and I'd want an independent to check it over.

I'd keep your deposit and I'd also possibly considering sueing you for breach of contract depending on how I felt about the work you'd had done and the quality of it.

You simply cannot pretend you own a rental property and make changes like this. View it as a hotel room. You pay to stay there. You cannot go in and rip out fixtures and fittings and redecorate.

I'd also give you a terrible reference, or insure the agency did, and advise other landlords not to rent to you.

My old house is rented and has a very very old looking suite in the bathroom. It is, in fact, an original 1920s bath and likely worth as much as the crappy house it’s in. If my remnants swapped it for a hideous sterile white suite I would honestly sue.

Sorry tenants