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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To say no to this.

75 replies

Thisgirlcant · 17/10/2018 18:34

I've cleaned for an elderly lady for the past 5 yrs. Recently she's started with dementia so I've started doing some some shopping for her as well. She only has an elderly cousin who is her next of kin so a solicitor is looking after all her money. I email them the receipts from any shopping i do and my hours and they transfer the money to me.

The solicitors message me to tell me they'd given my client some money and could I ask her to give me some to do her shopping, she refused saying it's her money and I was to get it off the solicitors, she's a bit confused so doesn't quite get it.

I told the solicitor she wouldn't give me any money, they replied saying they could transfer this weeks money I'd spent but the ladies attorney is on holiday till early November and I will either have to get the money off her or use my own cash which will be refunded to me when her attorney is back.

Wibu to say I don't want to keep spending my own money to do this ladies shopping for the next few weeks and also there's my pay which I won't be getting.

I'm a bit that they expect me, the cleaner to cover her expenses.

OP posts:

LeftRightCentre · 21/10/2018 18:42

First things first, OP - call the solicitors first thing on Monday and tell them that, unless they transfer what's owed to your bank that day, you won't be going on Tuesday - and mean it

This. You will end up out of pocket and the solicitors may turn on you, accuse you of stealing money and put you in a bad way.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/10/2018 18:48

Oh, and if it helps to avoid feeling guilty, maybe consider that by propping up this untenable situation you're probably not really helping her in the long run

What will help her is for proper care to be organised, but while you're doing it that's not going to happen (Also see LeftRightCentre's post about not allowing SS to see you as the fall guy)

LongWalkShortPlank · 21/10/2018 18:50

I think they just need to give you a prepaid debit card.

Jaxhog · 21/10/2018 18:58

I assume from your messages that SS is your employer? I would stick to doing things via them. Anything else will open you to all sorts of problems. As you have already experienced.

vdbfamily · 21/10/2018 19:01

I think a prepaid debit card is a great idea and every time you spend an amount, they reload it with that amount but there is always £100 balance. It is very complicated trying to maintain people with dementia in their own homes and 5there are no easy solutions. If you are trusted with money in advance, you could abuse it but if given in arrears, it is not fair on you. If a person is mobile enough to join you shopping, they can present their own card but often this is not the case. We had a patient stuck in hospital this week with a similar dilemma. Eventually we agreed to give her lunch and send her home with picnic tea and food parcel for next day and carers agreed to pick her up and take her shopping next day as she is only one who can use her card. They will need a plan in place once she can no longer go shopping! Not easy when often paranoia around finances is common with dementia.

HoneyWheeler · 21/10/2018 19:08

Can they not do an online shop for her? Save having to get cash at all? If you were so inclined, you could email a shopping list, but as PPs have said it's not your job!

Original poster

Thisgirlcant · 21/10/2018 19:32

Would solicitors really turn on me?! I thought they'd be very honest or am I being naive?
I'm self employed. I've never had any problem getting the money off the solicitors so far it just takes a few days.

I'll speak to the guy who organisers her care (I think he may be a social worker) but I'm not sure.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

OP posts:

Whereismumhiding2 · 21/10/2018 19:34

If the solicitors who have POA leave her for 28 days (have I recalled length of solicitors holiday right?) without essentials as they have not made payment (not 'money thats in clients house somewhere') available, they will be causing neglect and starvation of an incapacitated person. POA is a responsibility & solicitors know that as they have own prpfwsional standards in addition to MCA Code of Practice.

You've identified to them that leaving her wads of cash is not working as she now refuses to pay/hides that money instead of paying for food she requires to survive, due to her level of confusion/incapacity to understand money.

They would be neglecting their duty if they went away leaving her without access to food in light of that information. The same as if her gas or electric was cut off because they 'gave her (incapacitated party) the money and she failed to pay'. That's not discharging your responsibility.

They can't ask OP to pay for clients food out of her own money without it being a solid two way agreement (& prompt reimbursement), (which it is not!), whether OP was a carer or a cleaner.

However they can organise someone in office to order food online using firms card to pay it and organising you to be there (paid) at delivery time to put it away. I'm sure you could give them a list of food, toiletries and other items required each week if you didn't mind.

If notified ASD would safeguard this as financial abuse and neglect if she ran out of food & went hungry, as they hadn't taken steps to organise something robust. The repercussions for a solicitor failing to discharge their duty and causing harm to (neglect of) their client is professionally huge. If ASD have to step in to purchase food for her, the solicitors would likely be reported to other agencies including Office of Public Guardian as part of that safeguarding procedure.

Talk to the social worker on Monday so they can 'have words' with solicitor.

NB. I don't know any registered paid care agency that would be willing to purchase a client's food each week for them without payment upfront or immediately on delivery.

LeftRightCentre · 21/10/2018 19:36

Would solicitors really turn on me?! I thought they'd be very honest or am I being naive?

Yep, you are being naive. They're already trying to take the piss out of you by not paying you upfront or immediately after the service is rendered and with this 'wait for money' bollocks.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/10/2018 19:43

Would solicitors really turn on me?! I thought they'd be very honest or am I being naive?

Put it like this ... if there's any suggestion that they're failing in their duty of care under the POA they'll be looking for someone else to blame

And right now, one of the main people in the firing line is looking at you in the mirror

Bluelady · 21/10/2018 19:56

Isn't it sad that the firm of solicitors this old lady arranged to look after her affairs when she was compos mentis and is paying handsomely to do it is letting her down so badly?

Original poster

Thisgirlcant · 21/10/2018 20:01

That's all very interesting. So they are actually failing In their duty of care already by not having any means to get to her money for two weeks, id never thought of that and how bad is that! but how could they blame me?

OP posts:

Bluelady · 21/10/2018 20:05

I don't think they can. You have a paper trail detailing their incompetence. Hopefully the SS guy can sort them out tomorrow.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/10/2018 20:28

how could they blame me?

Imagine for a moment that the money your client "lost" came to their attention. Under POA the solicitors might choose to look into that, especially if it helped deflect from any potential neglect on their part. Since they already know you to be someone who (quite rightly) wants money, what's to stop them putting you in the searchlight of any investigation?

The more pertinent question, surely, is why you'd put yourself in this whole situation at all? It only needs a few whispers about "missing money" and how "she was always asking for cash" and that's your reputation gone ... why risk it?

DownTownAbbey · 22/10/2018 06:14

Don't phone them, E-mail. Then you have a paper trail.

Original poster

Thisgirlcant · 22/10/2018 06:39

I've just emailed social services. Puzzledandpissedoff the police were called about the missing money so I hope that's covers me and I wasn't at her house when it went missing. I'm already getting defensive!

OP posts:

EK36 · 22/10/2018 07:00

So you're paid to clean and now you're buying her grocery shop for no extra pay? And theyre nit reimbursing you properly. What?! I would stick to the cleaning if you still get paid. Report to SS and tell the solicitor its not working for you as youre always out of pocket.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/10/2018 14:31

I've just emailed social services

Very wise of you ... have you managed to contact the solicitors too, or had any more thoughts on whether to go tomorrow or not?

Original poster

Thisgirlcant · 22/10/2018 17:45

Someone contacted me from Social services and they're going to arrange a carer to do the shopping from next week.
I am going tomorrow but her social worker is leaving me some money in a cupboard to cover expenses.
Apparently she has some money which he was against giving her but she insisted, so he's going to get some off her, she really trusts him.
She doesn't trust me her neighbours or her best friend who she's known for years which is a bit sad really but I guess (hope) it's part of the illness.

I will still be cleaning for her which I'm pleased about as I do like her.

OP posts:

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/10/2018 20:47

Brilliant update - really pleased you seem to be getting somewhere, though I'm crossing my fingers that nothing gets in the way of SS doing what they've said they'll do

It's especially good that someone else should be doing the shopping now; it was never your role in the first place and hopefully that should prevent any future snafus over money

EK36 · 22/10/2018 22:18

That's good news. Thanks for the update OP.

Original poster

Thisgirlcant · 13/11/2018 19:34

Just a bit of another update. I cleaned last Tuesday for the lady and did her a few bits of shopping as she had no bread, she loves bread! Got her fish and chips for her lunch all out of my money.
I sent the invoice to the solicitors last Tuesday she messaged me back saying 'we are just in the process of accessing her funds so we won't be able to pay you what's owed till early next week. I'm still waiting.
What the hell is it with this Solicitor? it isn't their money.
I'm Genuinely at a loss as to what is going on?

OP posts:

minisoksmakehardwork · 13/11/2018 23:04

Tbh I'd not be doing the shopping but getting straight on the phone to social services to say she's been left without food.

Hope you get your money soon.

NoDancingPolicy · 13/11/2018 23:14

I think you just have a simple decision here; keep buying her stuff and accept that you will have to fight for payment or lose the money. Or you can stop helping her in this way. Either decision is fine, but you need to choose. You are in control here.

TrippingTheVelvet · 14/11/2018 00:24

Just be careful. If SS have now arranged for a carer to do her shopping, they might not continue to reimburse you for purchased that weren't pre-agreed.

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