having to take unpaid leave to pick a sick child up early from school?

[dalmationdotty]

So last week at work, school call mid morning to say DS2 is poorly, they really feel he ought to go home. School usually are pretty robust at keeping kids in welfare and only really call if feel they need to go. DS2 was feeling sick and light headed. Anyway I tell my boss if I can leave at lunchtime after I do my mornings work. Its around 11am. get several more calls from school to say DS2 now being sick. Rush to try and finish off what am doing. Colleague says she will cover me for afternoon. Leave around midday. Anyway today boys says would i like to make up my hours for the afternoon taken off of take it as unpaid leave? I have never taken time off for kids illness before. I usually either bring child to work if not too unwell or have found cover. Also colleague that covered me was asked to invoice for her overtime but she said no its fine as we all cover each other in times of need and if she had to dash off she'd hope work would be fine with it. They tell her how admirable of you, thanks. So I am now making up the hours on my day off, that my colleague has covered free of charge???? Seems wrong?

I work in a busy professional industry and it would be considered incredibly petty if a boss tried to get back time taken for picking up a sik child.

I've never heard of that attitude because most bosses know that employees usually give the extra hours when it is needed. I have always put in extra time to make sure projects go well etc.

It's all such a race to the bottom - people bitter because someone else gets an hour off etc. We should all support each other in demanding more flexible working for everyone - so that anyone for whatever reason can leave the office for an important reason when they need to.

You all need to read the David Graeber book Bullshit Jobs.

Yanbu.

If that’s your boss’s attitude I hope you don’t do any more unpaid excess hours.

You have a statutory right to emergency leave under some circumstances. Not necessarily paid though. It sounds like your boss is giving you the opportunity to make up your hours so you don’t lose out financially.

the hate towards working parents never ceases to amaze me on these threads...what people actually expect people to do when their kid is sick is beyond me

Depends on the type of job. At my work we do projects and can have really busy peak periods where we end up taking extra work home or staying late, so I'd still pay one of my team for something like this, especially as it's occasional - similarly we've all had to cover for each other occasionally.
Even if it was a per hour job, often paid sick leave also includes caring responsibilities - worth checking your policy.

@Rach182 I don’t disagree with you.
I think the best option is to say “you are joking aren’t you? Remember I worked 4 hours last week, and every other week?”
But if that feels confrontational, and you know you’ll work 4 extra hours next week, then it’s easier to say “OK, I’ll make them up next week - probably an hour extra each day but I’ll let you know which hours when it’s done, as I may stay longer to cover on a day I don’t know yet”.

I'm glad I don't have most of you as a boss
Such pettiness and jobsworthiness
If some posters had their way, every work in the land would have to clock in and out on a daily basis

Can you say to your boss 'regarding making up the hours, I've checked back through my diary and I've already worked XX hours unpaid overtime this week/month, so that more than covers the hours from last week'
They'd have to have some brass neck to still want you to make up additional hours on top

I work in the nhs and yes you make up your time or take it as carers leave or annual leave

I think it's normal to make up the hours. Everyone has to pop off early sometimes. If you normally work more than your contracted hours, the boss may well not ask anything else, acting reasonably.

Sadly for many organisations, yes this is usual. Just reign in any extra time you spend at work, it has to be give and take.

Oh, and I also don't think staff should have to regularly work above and beyond their paid hours for free. That is not right. As I said, a bit of give and take now and again is fine, but expecting employees to regularly stay late, give up their lunch hour or work at home is not.

If they don't give you leeway this time, when you have pointed out all the extra hours you have already done, I'd start working to rule in future, arriving back on time and leaving on time. It's supposed to be quid pro quo.

"Can you say to your boss 'regarding making up the hours, I've checked back through my diary and I've already worked XX hours unpaid overtime this week/month, so that more than covers the hours from last week' "

This is exactly what I think you should do. And in future, you should keep a record of extra hours you've worked and use them for any emergencies or unexpected events. Your boss can't have it every way.

Just reread and see you are NHS, OP. Which means your manager is going through the motions and recording your leave as special leave. It’s a bit job’s worth to insist on you making it up if you normally work unpaid overtime, but strictly speaking it’s correct. Your colleague should definitely put in a claim for the time she worked to cover you. She shouldn’t lose out and she is entitled to payment.

From now on go by the book, record any overtime you work and then you can produce this as time worked if you ever need to do this again.

The bit you’re being unreasonable about is not leaving ASAP to go and get your sick child. School shouldn’t have to call you “several more” times before you leave to collect him.

Surely nothing for you changes then though? You don't need to 'make up your hours' if you're doing more anyways? You just say yes I'll make up my hours and then do your normal working week?

Agree it's petty of your boss, but I think what the OP is actually meaning is that if her colleague is not getting paid overtime and she is making up the hours, then essentially the business is getting an extra half day's work for free.

So in that sense, I don't think you are being unreasonable as such. But you should insist that as you are working the hours back, your colleague gets paid overtime for the extra she did.

Another NHS employee here - I would also be expected to make up the time (in theory at least - in practice nobody is monitoring me).

Sadly if staff don't have to pay back time off for occasions like this, some will take the micky, which is unfair on their colleagues. This removes the incentive to do so.

School shouldn’t have to call you “several more” times before you leave to collect him.

I'm afraid not everyone is sitting at home, five minutes away from the school, and has to work for a living.

If I had to get to the school from work it would take me 1.5 hours. If I was in a meeting I wouldn't even see the message, though I do have other people on the contact list who can pick up and who would answer their phone. Not everyone has such backup, though.

At first I thought yabu but actually your update maybe changes things, you say you work unpaid overtime, if this is regularly and not just 10/15 minutes while you finish what you are doing but enough time to be significant then I think your boss has a bloody nerve actually.

In any job I've been in it's either one way or the other - you don't get paid for any time off other than a/l but equally you aren't expected to ever work over
OR
If you stay when the company needs you then you can equally leave if you need to, generally it balances over time and once it's not massively in favour of either party then it's an unwritten rule that both parties appreciate the flexibility and don't take the piss.

It's massively unfair if overtime is expected and unpaid to then look for the hours back

Seems totally reasonable to me. Why would you get paid when you're not there working?

I'm with you op. If you regularly do unpaid extra hours then your boss should take it out of that.

I'm also public sector (not NHS) and we all use flexi, so I'd just be down half a day's hours, but as I work over my hours every week, that wouldn't be an issue.

So your colleague was only a half day but stayed to cover you ? Did she do this for free or did she get paid ?

As if she got paid, the NHS are then paying double bubble for them hours, when only 1 person is effectively working.
If you are constantly working over your hours for free, I assume you are recording even though they are not paid, I would then show this to my manager and for a week or so clock off when your hours are done regardless of the situation.

I used to hate listening to people moan on and on about how many hours they have done,and how they have done over and above as soon. As soon as things didn't go their way ..... Out comes the "do you know how many hours a week I work for free" well you are adult if you decide to do that, fine, but don't expect all the rules to change for you because you do.

If you work for the NHS it is probably not the same kettle of fish and harder to walk out of the door on time if you are patient facing, but just needed to say that.

This is pretty standard for the NHS, OP. You've said you've never had to do this before - does your trust have a Carers Leave allowance? It's usually 2-3 days per year allowed. Some trusts give paid carers leave, others it's unpaid.

I've used all my carers days before and had to take unpaid leave. I'm also a single parent. Unfortunately it doesn't really matter to them if someone's covered for you or not.

I'm currently making my hours up, as I had to take DS to an emergency GP appointment on Friday and it took the whole morning. 2.5 hours done, 1 to go. My boss is very understanding and flexible - but only if you make up the hours or take leave (paid or unpaid).

I would contact your HR department and see what the policy is around special leave. I've worked previously in HR for an NHS Trust and staff could take a certain number of days emergency leave per year for such a situation.