To really think there needs to be more help available for childcare

[pinkcreamsoda]

I am looking at nurseries as I am really hoping to have a baby in the next eighteen months.

I earn 45,000 a year so I know I am luckier than most. This translates as about 2400 monthly pay.

Nursery is 1200 a month.

It’s a lot!

You are right to look at childcare costs before TTC particularly if you intend to do this alone. Will you have any family help as that will bring the costs down? The difficulty may be if you intend doing IVF as a single parent they sometimes do have multiple births as they put more than one fertilised embryo in to double the chances of implantation. If they both implant then you have twins which is double. Your best option is to save as hard as possible beforehand so you have a large savings buffer and get your other costs down as low as possible. Presumably you also need to pay for ivf.

Is there a reason you are choosing to do this alone?

@formerbabe But the OP didn't say anything about wages (and she's on £45k as it is)

You see you say £45k as if it's a lot of money but when you take into account the cost of living, it doesn't stretch very far at all...that should be a decent amount to live on...whether you have kids or not.

Children are the future taxpayers- it's not just about comparing and contrasting outgoings a generation ago or two generations ago- it's not a lifestyle choice ffs. The biggest difference today, is that we, along with the rest of Europe, are facing a demographic crisis, how do you suggest way pay for the provisions for the ever increasing elderly population if we stop having children? Shaking up workplace structures and culture is the way forward it's not about 'benefits' and someone else paying for your 'choices'! I work in a profession in a school so that I get term time arrangments but I would be on more than double what I'm earning in the private sector in the same profession. The reason I don't do this is that it would be a commute to London for the good money and we can't have two parents commuting far away from where are children are in school. My husband is an Architect whose workplace doesn't seem to understand the idea of ever having to pick up your children even at 5.30/6 after-school club. To a certain extent I can demand change but it would mean a cut in income and he's in a senior role now. I meet so many Mums who have Masters degrees, are highly skilled professionals and due to these outdated work practices, have settled for similar set ups.

I can't understand the 30 hours at 3 either as no company gives 3 years maternity leave. It would also make sense to do 15 hours from 9 months when SMP stops until school for each child. Surely that would encourage most women back to work if that is their aim?

@Caprisunorange No, it wouldn't be £2 per month. We're talking at least an extra 7p tax in every pound you earn.

@formerbabe When you earn and live perfectly reasonably on £20k per year as I do, then yes, £45k seems more than adequate.

@Goldenbear Some professions don't work standard hours. Lots of people are self employed. Children are future taxpayers, but what about current taxpayers too? Why should parents keep getting benefits without non-parents getting some benefits too? Why shouldn't a childfree person who helps look after an ailing parent get the same rights to have to nip off to the hospital or can't come in because they are sick as a parent doing that for a child for whom they are responsible. Surely we should be looking for flexibility and fairness ACROSS THE BOARD and not just one set of people?

@formerbabe When you earn and live perfectly reasonably on £20k per year as I do, then yes, £45k seems more than adequate

I have no idea of your circumstances ...whether you have a partner? Children? Top up benefits? Where you live? Etc. I'm not asking by the way....but most people, especially if they live in London/south east and have children, could not live comfortably on 20k a year. In fact, the entire amount could be wiped out by the rent on a modest flat and council tax.

How could you possible work that out @shatnerswig?

OP has already said she takes home £2400 a month and childcare will be £1200. I don’t know about you but my bills and £1000 a month and mortgage another £1000. How can she pay for even the basics, alone, with £1200 a month?

@former No, but then that's also part of the issue, isn't it. In London, £45k is nothing. In others, it's a fortune. In some places, that would be 50% of the cost of a house.

@Capri I'll have to search for it. There was a study done by some institute last year and I remember it being quoted on another thread about NHS funding that if people want the NHS to do everything they want it to, and for increased funding for schools and childcare, plus improved elderly care, you were talking at least a 5p increase in the basic rate of tax and 2p increase in national insurance contributions. I'm not sure from memory if this also included going back to free university education as well or not.

We’re not talking about those things we’re talking about further subsidising childcare and there is NO WAY that is costing anything like 7p in every £1

I never said it did. I said we're in a climate where everyone wants MORE of everything - free childcare, better NHS, others stuff - all of which together would be that sort of cost. The point I made is if you want it, we all have to pay for it, and a lot of people are totally against raising taxes, so where do people expect it to come from? If we think "society" should be paying for childcare, surely "society" must also pay for the other stuff too? As Golden said "children are the future taxpayers" but they are also the future elderly people who will need care. We shouldn't be thinking of childcare in isolation from other things, we should be looking at improving ALL of society.

Ok well then you must’ve misread my post-which you responded to directly- saying it would cost 7p in the pound - when I had said I was happy to pay the extra £2 a month or whatever to subsidise childcare

As someone who was a working single mother in the 70s when there was no maternity leave and barely any childcare at any price, I'd really resent subsidising childcare any more than I am now.

Like a pp, I'm staggered at the level of entitlement that exists now. OP, you're very sensible to think about this before you make the lifelong commitment to having a child but I don't want to pay for your choice.

I think it's good your looking at how much things cost now, I don't think you should be criticised for that we. Our household nets around £75k so without a doubt we can afford another child (have DD nearly 9) but we have still sat and worked out what my maternity will be, nursery etc, and decided to save 5k while were TTC.

I wish you the best of luck OP & think it's very sensible to be looking at your finances, particularly if you are planning to go it alone! 

Firstly I'd say that you absolutely doing the right thing looking at this now - you need to understand costs but also get a real feel of what type of care will work for you. It's very much a marmite situation I think... people who want childminders and others nursery. Each nursery though is very different and I'd say don't be put off the genre by the first one you see. Both types of care have pros and cons.

Secondly the costs - totally get where you are coming from re saying could it not be paid hourly etc but you need to reverse this and think about how the childcare provider would manage this. Without being able to cover their fixed costs the only option would be higher variable costs. Most of the providers I know are just making a normal if low living. A rough calculation suggests that the costs you have been quoted are £7.50 an hour. That's for a high staff ratio for a baby and what..... genuine question because if it hasn't been obvious already each nursery seems to offer a slightly different package. Make sure you know if nappies (creams, wipes etch & all meals are included. This can make a big difference to whether the cost is reasonable. Also are activities in the price - looks great that Becky Ballerina and Mr Musicman etc comes in but do you pay more? We didn't effectively saved on what we'd paid out for activities previously. All adds up and helps.

Crappy childcare has put me in the position i cant afford to work. Better subsidised childcare would get so many into work