To encourage my child to do an instrument before they ask?

[XyZhe]

Hi! Unsure if I'm unreasonable here. Our little boy is 4 (think he might still be too little?) they start music lessons (optional and obviously a charge) at school from 7+, but some outside of school start at 3! I think 3 is a little too little.

Is an instrument something you encourage and if so, at what age? Or do you wait until they ask?

What age did your children start?

Thanks!

Also I am not sure what will happen if you don’t insist on practice. Most children enjoy the fun bits of playing an instrument, but scales/working on technique etc is usually less fun and if you leave them to their own devices there is a high chance they won’t progress any further. I admit, I do come from a culture where being a “tiger mum” is the norm, so maybe I find lots of parents are too relaxed and some think that my child is gifted, when he is just an average child that practices a lot. I also sit in all music lessons, take notes and supervise his practice at home. I can’t read music, but I learnt that it’s not essential and you can support them without being able to play/read music.

My son's piano teacher has a kid aged 4. I asked once how she teaches someone so young. She said it's literally sometimes only one note per lesson. Please note that a 1 hour lesson costs £32. Some people do a 30-min lesson which is still £16. If you are happy to pay that to potentially learn only 1 note per lesson, then I don't see why not.

Personally, I'd wait until the child is a bit more aware of own interests and is more capable of concentrating on learning something like playing a musical instrument although I don't know your child and maybe that's already the case? I don't want to sound patronising but, my experience, is that 7+ would be a more suitable age to start unless the child is particularly passionate and wants to do it now.

Sorry I should've said that price per lesson, of course, does vary but, from my research, it's rarely anything too much below £28 per hour although it does depend on the area etc etc.

I don't really like music. Often when listening to music I think, oh that's a nice bit, only to realise they have stopped making noise which is why I like it.
I came to an agreement with DS that I would pay for his music lessons if he practiced at least every other day, less than that I would stop paying for lessons. I have no idea what he practices, I actually can read basic music but I can't hear enough musically to be of any help to anyone. There are some DC at school that are made to practise by much more involved parents and I can see how that would help with learning to play specific pieces but I would worry that would squash DC's natural enthusiasm for this stuff. I did tell one teacher that DS tended to write his own bits of music when he got bored of practising class stuff but she was clear that as long as he was playing it really didn't much matter what he played. The last thing I would want him to do is go into music so I don't mind if he isn't perfect (of course currently he has this on his option list but he is only in primary school!)

I don’t want DS to choose music as his career, I’d rather he chose an easier way to earn money. However, I don’t believe in half measures, so if DC do something it should be done to a highest standard and therefore I insist on practice and taking music lessons seriously. Especially after forking out a fortune on lessons and instruments and spending hours helping them learn.

I will lay off him in secondary, I believe by age 11-12 they are mature enough to decide. Until then I am going to supervise his learning and make sure he practices to the highest standard.

RomanyRoots, I agree with Mrsnutellatoast about music helping Maths.
I have read some articles about early instrument learning(Piano, in particular) and academic success, but needs to be done before school age.

And it works other way around too. My ds is good at Maths and pattern reading/decoding. He reads sheet music with ease. Though technical thing is a bit different matter.

irvine

I think it can help in some instances, but not always as my dd has proved. Music has been a big part of her life since being a toddler, she could sing before talking.
The likelihood is that she will fail to gain a level 4 in maths, despite years and years of intervention.

Level 4 in maths doesn't even make sense, they don't have levels anymore. Are you not in the UK?

But obviously do agree, that it's not always the case that music help maths or vice versa.Just an anecdotal evidence that I've heard/read, and my own experience with my own.dc.

My dh is not musical - I am - I play 3 instruments to grade 8 plus standard. When dd was little we took her to lots of different forums to experience music. Dh's brother plays in a pretty well known ska band as well as introducing classical busking and concerts (London so easy to do for free). We left dd pick her instrument at 5 - annoyingly she didn't pick the many instruments we already had and told us violin was her choice. I play recorder, flute, piano and organ. She has had lessons since she was five - at 8 she is grade 3 standard but more importantly she enjoys it - beyond the syllabus she plays a lot of 'fiddle' or jams with her uncle.

We have no end game though other than enjoyment it has been such a pleasure for me - that is what we wanted not an academic advantage. Her sound is amazing and her musicality is awesome x

irvine
The amount of people who used to ask/state that dd must be good at maths because she is gifted musically is unreal.
She used to feel as though she had to tell them how hard maths is for her. Luckily her future won't be thwarted if she doesn't gain a 4 (old C) in GCSE as the colleges accept functional skills as an equivalent.
I haven't told her this as she is averaging 40% in tests.

Music is wonderful and it's never to early to listen

Romany, of course there will always be exceptions to the rule, but a lot of musical children are also good at maths. It does not mean that every single child who started music early will also become a mathematician, but there is a certain correlation between musical and mathematical ability.

"Far transfer" (the idea that learning things like chess and music will help with attainment in different domains like maths or problem-solving) almost certainly doesn't exist.

There have been a couple of large-scale metastudies done on this in recent times. What they show is that the studies that show kids doing better at maths as a result of music are the ones that do not properly control for the fact that brighter, more middle-class parents and kids are more likely to do music (and tend to be better at academics in general). The larger and better-designed studies basically show no particular boost to mathematics or other skills.

This is not to sneer at the idea of studying music. But children (and adults) who study music should be doing so for reasons like, it can bring joy to their lives, introduce them to wider social circles, improve their cultural literacy and general knowledge, plus having any hobby that does not involve gaping at a screen (geocaching, chess, cello, darts, balloon-modeling, baking, you name it) tends to make people physically and emotionally healthier and is good for wellbeing.

But don't use music as an "exam-boosting" instrument--if it's good maths tests results you actually want, you need to do more maths with your child.

Nice readable article here:
digest.bps.org.uk/2017/11/24/no-far-transfer-chess-memory-training-and-music-just-make-you-better-at-chess-memory-training-and-music/#more-32784

Academic literature here:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29276344

Kokeshi, this is from the link you provided: Recent studies indicate that music training provides robust, long-lasting biological benefits to auditory function. Importantly, the behavioral advantages conferred by musical experience extend beyond simple enhancements to perceptual abilities and even impact non-auditory functions necessary for higher-order aspects of cognition (e.g., working memory, intelligence). Collectively, preliminary findings indicate that alternative forms of arts engagement (e.g., visual arts training) may not yield such widespread enhancements, suggesting that music expertise uniquely taps and refines a hierarchy of brain networks subserving a variety of auditory as well as domain-general cognitive mechanisms.

We are not talking about chess, we are talking about music here and they seem to agree that unlike other activities music DOES affect brain.

The link: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24079993/?i=6&from=/29276344/related

I have read some articles that music does affect development of brain, though it's particularly with piano, since it involve using both hands, and to have academic results, it need to be started before certain age, at least school age for children in England.(before 5)
I can actually see it works, every stimulation at that age does affect brain/neural pathway development, and using both hand doesn't come easily for most people, and learning piano is one way to achieve that.

@RomanyRoots my daughter gets equally frustrated by those comments

I started at 7 and that was fine. My children's father teaches music and he has always found whether they start at 5 (as some keen parents want_) or 7 they seem to end up on the same level so I am not sure it makes too much difference starting very young. Depends onthe child as well. If they hardly every sit still then starting too young is going to be bad for them as there will be too much arguing with them. My 3 sons won music scholarships and started their 2 or 3 instruments at around 7.

However below that age we were singing a lot at home, in the car, songs before bed, they heard older siblings sing and both parents playing which I am sure helps too.

I wouldn't wait until they ask but we did let them change instrument - one from flute to French horn early on and another from violin to clarinet again before grade 1.

also if you can sit next to small ones when they practice it can be very helpful. 5 minutes of practice a day 7 days a week ideally at the same time is better than one long session once a week. Also I like playing the piano (I've 4 grade 8s etc) so for over 25 years I've been accompanying various of the 5 children which has been really lovely (particularly with the 5th when he got better on his instrument than I was on the piano). End of an era now as the last ones are at university.

I think if you want children to just learn to play music, it is better to wait until they are capable and willing to.
My ds asked if he can learn to play piano at 8. He is motivated and willing to practice. I wanted him to learn it earlier, and may have did good, but it could have been opposite . The only reason we didn't was financial reasons, if we had unlimited money, we certainly let him learn it, or at least try it before he even asked.

But every child is different, if you have insight and think it may benefit your very young child and you can afford it, I would encourage it.

I signed up my son for piano lessons at 3 but it didn't work out. His hands were too little and he had bloody homework! E.g. labelling music notes in an exercise book. He couldn't even read! He's just turned 6 and I will let him try again. If I don't encourage him, I doubt he'd ask himself.

The Tudor's learned music from we young as 2/3!

I'd do it.

I found with all 3 of ours starting off with Rhythm, and song was fun and part of their play.
The Jungle book and other Disney films were brilliant for this.
We made lots of percussion instruments and I bought a chest full of bells, cymbals, drum etc.
The older two learned their times tables through rhythm, they marched and beat the drum whilst saying the tables. It worked great for them, they got better at maths, but didn't keep the music up.
dd otoh, didn't gain mathematically, but kept up the music.

I don't think they are ever too young to have fun with music whilst learning the basics. I think the longer you can keep it fun the better, no child thinks it's fun to have constant lessons, practice and exams.

I think it’s great to give him a small instrument and easy music to see if he is interested. Really leave him to it. I was given a harmonica when around 5 and easy to learn music book for young children. I loved it and taught myself to read simple music very quickly and then went on to be very deeply involved in music. If I hadn’t shown interest/a knack I’m pretty sure my parents would not have forced the issue (would have been awful if forced). Something small/inexpensive/not too loud for first steps.

I started the violin before I was 4, and it has been a real joy in my life. It's not my career but I still play a lot. I wouldn't have thought to ask at that age, but was asked if I wanted to and said yes please. Who knows if starting early helped? Certainly didn't hinder.

We had similar conversations with DC when they seemed like they would have the concentration, tried playing around a little at home first to test if they were seriously interested. DS didn't want to have proper lessons early but pottered through some piano books with me, started lessons at 8 and around grade 1 standard. DD fancied violin at 3 and did like the idea of lessons, we found her a super fun teacher, 20 minute lessons, she asked to add piano at school at 5 and is still loving both at 6. She's not a prodigy or anything but she has great practice habits, I love her playful experimenting approach, she has joined a little string group, generally very happy bunny.

For me it was the same as any other preschool hobby. They didn't go to toddler gym because we had an eye on Olympic qualification, they went because it was a fun thing to do and they liked the idea when it was suggested to them.