To ask what YOU would do to help save the NHS?

[TamiTayorismyparentingguru]

I don’t care if you’re an HCP or not, I don’t care who you vote for, I don’t care what you think about Brexit - all opinions welcome.

Opinions on practical suggestions on how to save the NHS only though.

Our local hospital is getting worse and worse with regards to staff shortages and waiting lists getting longer and longer. I will say that our GP is really great and we’ve never really had a problem with getting appointments etc, but as soon as you are referred to the hospital things go massively downhill. (We did have a GP misdiagnose/miss DH’s cancer which was pretty shit - but I wouldn’t say that was a particular problem with the system - more just one of those unfortunate things that happens, that really shouldn’t happen, but that are just a matter of course.)

The hospital is a different story though - wait lists for some departments are insane (current wait time for an initial cataracts appointment is 42 weeks and then up to 18m for treatment, paediatric dermatology is a min of 30weeks, paediatric podiatry is approx 30weeks also. I have been on a wait list for max fax for 14mths so far. I also had an 8week wait for an appointment at the breast clinic after seeing the GP with a noticeable lump.)

DH has also had to fight for every single appointment since his cancer treatment last year - instead of the 4-weekly appointments he’s meant to have had, most of his appointments have been 7-8 weeks apart and have been cancelled at the last minute (sometimes just an hour before) at least 4 times in the last year.

It’s awful and yet I do trust that the doctors, nurses, receptionists etc etc are all doing everything they possibly can.

What’s the solution?

I must beg to differ. My DC call me mum because I am their mother. The nurse or doctor is not my child and may not therefore call me "mum". It is reductive and it is incorrect.

It is absolutely about equality bluelady As I said earlier I have waited in orthopaedics at my local hospital. All the men are called in as Mr White, Mr Jones. All the wome are called in as Jane Smith, Claire Woods. It is absolutely about equality and is totally unacceptable.

If it's such nonsense why then don't nurses call the dr Fred and Joan rather than Mr or Dr very important person?

I was so tempted to say in response to "you mum". No I'm not, I have the full power of speech, I am, however, William's mum. It's just sloppy.

And under no circumstances does being called love put me at my ease. Ever. Again it is dismissive and reductive. If it wasn't nurses would refer to consultants as love or darlin but they don't. Why not if it is good wnough for the patient.

And once I introduce myself as Mrs Roses, why do staff then continually ignore what I have just made plain. The last time a nurse used my first name was when she yelled at the top of her voice on a public ward about the position of my cervix and it was my fault it hurt because my body was odd. End of anything other than a professional relationship with an HCP ever - they are not my friends. They can afford me a modicum of respect at the very least even if they have no regard for my dignity.

I think it would be unfair to significantly lower doctors' salaries, because the costs they bear from their training are significant and life long. 5 years uni, with compound interest, instead of three, for example.

I think it would be unfair to significantly lower doctors' salaries, because the costs they bear from their training are significant and life long. 5 years uni, with compound interest, instead of three, for example.

With regards to junior doctors, yes I agree, they're overworked and underpaid. But as they climb the greasy pole to seniority, consultancies, GP partners, etc., they're then remarkably well paid.

@Graphista

www.the-pool.com/health/health/2018/43/Selma-Blair-multiple-sclerosis-diagnosis-MS-Instagram?fbclid=IwAR0kyme8FylvAYrpY3BNRi-ZCO4UJN5nzLMElYA9xQFcPJy3HMbl7QYCZHM

Helena that's dreadful! Thanks for the link!

Also links to Lena Dunham another endo sufferer who had years of issues.

The naivety of reducing doctors pay as a solution is astounding. Where are all these other doctors coming from?
A GP takes a minimum of 11 years from A levels to qualify. It costs approximately £120, 000 to get to this point for the student/Junior doctor.
Junior doctors don’t get to choose where the live and work . Any choice is dependent on exam results and only allows choice of region. You might want London and get Margate. You might be placed on Isle of Wight and your husband or partner might get Dorchester.
The hourly rate for many juniors is below the living wage. A 60 hour week with no overtime is not unusual.
Junior doctors aren’t necessarily junior. It means everyone who isn’t a consultant.
So we pay consultant grades £50k - what are we going to pay (specialist registrars, registrars, ST1, ST2, CT2,CT1, FY2, FY1) Differentials would be a challenge.

Why would someone with the level of qualifications and determination to make it through training work for 50k in the U.K.? Our doctors are already leaving in droves for better conditions.

Does anyone suggesting a pay cut really work a 60 or 70 hour week with frequent evenings and weekends on a rota in a job where you go 12/3 hours without a drink or lavatory break? Where you have to continue to study in your own time on top of a gruelling schedule. Where you have to pay significant amounts to take further exams. Does your job mean life or death decisions made rapidly with sufficient underpinning knowledge and when exhausted? Can your career be over for a single mistake? It would be interested to know what you do, if that is the case!

The NHS hasn’t funded their training anymore than Matrix Chambers has funded a law degree or the Department of Education has funded teacher training. Would all those using their degrees for anything other than public sector employment have to ‘pay back’ the costs - Lawyers, film technicians, engineers, paramedics, nurses, teachers, HR consultants, architects or accountants? Why are doctors singled out - they pay out far more during their degree and end up with much higher debthan most other students.

Well said, Cherry. The level of ignorance and stupidity on this thread defies belief.

I second well said Cherry. There are loads of pp suggesting that Drs get paid too much.Cutting their pay isn't going to solve the current retention crisis. Clinical staff (nurses, doctors, radiographers, pretty much everyone)in the NHS are leaving in droves for other counties or other jobs. The problem is significantly greater than simply pay. A colleague emigrated to Australia 10 years ago. She went to work in an A&E department where they have 60,000 attendances a year and have 20 full time equivalent consultants. Compare that to where I was working at the time - we saw 120000 patients a year and there were 10 FTE consultants. And she got paid double what I was being paid.....so, 1/2 the patients, double the consultants and double the pay. See also www.theguardian.com/society/2015/nov/08/nhs-doctors-in-australia-more-cash-fewer-hours-less-pressure

Additionally there isn't the constant doctor/nurse/NHS bashing in Oz. Just read/listen to the UK news. Every single day there is a story about how some dr/nurse/the NHS generally has failed a person/family/gender/town. It gets really wearing. 99.9% of HCP go to work to make a difference, when you get told on a daily basis that despite your best efforts in an overcrowded, understaffed, not-fit-for-purpose unit, you failed....you begin to think, 'why bother?'. And there isn't anywhere else to go. At least if you work in the private sector and you don't like your employer/pay/conditions you have options to negotiate or move. There is no negotiation(well not for 99% of employees....at the very very highest management levels there is some wriggle room) in the NHS. This is your job, this is your pay scale, take it or leave it.

I don't think doctors are badly paid, but I wouldn't do it for any less, and I wouldn't do any more for any more money. Until the government does something about the general working conditions (aside from the pay) the exodus will continue.

I would have a matron in charge of the hospitals and sisters in charge of everything on every ward. That would include cleaning and food provided.

I would have a two tier registration system again for nurses, like the old SRN and SEN.

Patients would be charged for any missed appointments.

I certaInly don't think drs are overpaid. I also think their training slate should be wiped after 10 yrs work in the UK. Dame for nurses and teachers but after a shorter time.

There are matrons with a Chief Nurse in most hospitals. They don’t wear frilly hats and aprons any more though.
There are ward managers/sisters/charge nurse in charge of wards. In most places they are responsible for housekeeping as well.
There is a two tier system with registered nurses working alongside nursing associates. The demands are more complex though with an increasing need for specialist skills as medicine develops new ways of working. A Nurse might be making beds and doing drug rounds on a ward but other nurses might be running an endoscopy list, managing chemotherapy via a central venous catheter or caring for an unconscious patient whose in critical care. Nursing, like medicine is not just one job.

The irony is that when doctors and nurses leave the country their student loans get written off.

The matrons we have now are not the same! The ward sisters are not truly in charge of their wards. Cleaning, for example, is contracted out. Thank Margaret Thatcher for that!

Nurse registration is only for registered nurses. My point is, all nurses should be registered nurses.

I know about nursing, guess how?

Margaret Thatcher ceased to be PM on 22.11.90. Nearly 28 years ago. We have subsequently had a labour govèrnment from 1997-2010 followed by a con/lib coalition. PCTS were supposed to change the world. You really cannot blame the current state of the NHS on someone who left nearly 30 years ago. Or may be you can as one of her ministers recommended the NHS was unsustainable and needed to be replaced. It was covered up due to perceived unpopulariry. Just think how great it could be now if that change hàd happened. Major wouldn't have won the 92 election though and neither Labour nor the Libs have followed it through.

Cherrypavlova

Matrix will fund the pupillage costs (ie the on the job training a law graduate has to undergo to become a barrister; and the training for the junior barristers by the senior barristers to become a senior one!

To become an accountant in central London:

1. Good degree and possibily MA to stand out from the crowd, when 1,000 graduates apply for 9 traineeships in an intake. Student loan for degree and MA
2. Work away from home all week, two weeks out of three - staying in budget hotels all over the country/Europe on audits. Likely to cost you personal relationship!
3. Probably work 70 - 80 hours a week, no paid overtime - including evenings and weekends
4. Do study in own time on top (it was 3 hours a night and 7 hours on Sunday when I did it)
5. Get told at initial interview, you can resit professional exams once if you fail - but firm changes it’s mind and sacks anybody who fails at first attempt. Only 2 from your intake get to qualify in 3 years time
6. Another 3 years experience to get practicing certificate and get to be a manager, earning £55,000 pa for 70 - 80 hours a week and you must meet all filing deadlines, and billing targets
7. No negotiation about salary - be grateful for what you get
8. Can get made redundant any time there is a down turn in the market

10. 5% bonus depending on whole firm meeting partners’ target for growth- say 12% pa 11. Certainly can get sacked for big mistake when exhausted, working until 2 am all week 12. Can get struck off, lose job and have no income 13. Partners can inadvertently make massive mistake - one of DH’s friends made one in order of £350 million. He was so stressed at the thought of partnership being wiped out and more, he could not even walk upstairs! Got ME in fact 14. Partners can go to jail, as well as get struck off, etc 15. At present DH is stressed at thought of being sued, he wakes up in cold sweat at 3 am and can’t get back to sleep. He cannot function - been to see GP to see if he hasdementia but GP says it’s stress! Actually he has not made the mistake!

Yes they will Luangwa but they won’t fund undergraduate degrees and neither does NHS.

Please don’t tell me you think accounts are badly off? Those we know are retiring at 55 having made several million pounds for their pension pots. They work part- time and much of that work is on the golf course or on a yacht. I’m sure they worked hard to get to that position but they certainly aren’t who I’d hold up as examples of the poorly paid and overworked. Those I know currently studying accountancy aren’t working anywhere near the hours of junior doctors and whilst based outside London, they work for a very large company with branches in London and HQ in Aldgate.

Yep. My DH was a barrister. He was barely present when the dc were small. In fact ds2 didn't make it. I went into labour at 27 weeks. DH was in court. His clerk met him from court and got him to hospital just before DS2 died.

I told the midwife dh was in court in early labour. She sympathised. The head midwife came to see me and expressed concern about the stress I must be under as my DH was in court. The penny dropped. He was there as a barrister, not an old lag she got really arsy because my circs had worried them and caused extra work. Er no, I thonk DH's job was on the notes. They just couldn't be bothered to read them.

I absolutely get that morbidly. DH was a barrister. He loved every minute though and 60+ was a quiet week. He has a brain the size of a planet. The average medic can't touch him.

cherry Public accounting is badly paid for the work performed and risk taken. I left because it wasn't worth it. I was paid about £60k a year for working 80-120 hours a week pretty much all year around. I rarely got a moment with my DC. I worked PT at one point just so I could try and see my DC. Didn't happened without killing my career.

I left to join my client. Regulatory nightmare making sure nothing was violated in terms of independence. I get paid a whole lot more now but it's because I've been through the public accounting mill. Do it first and then come back and tell me how easy it is. I did it with having DC. Took 8 weeks off for my 2nd. Still can't believe I made it. If I had taken more time off I would have had a hard time keeping my rating. I was seen as a legend because I passed my last exam 38 weeks pregnant.

My area of audit was US broker dealers and regulatory capital audit of compliance. An absolute nightmare with the most ridiculous deadlines and quarterly filings while the UK only has semi annual filings.

And there it is 7 pages of absolute bollocks.
That is why the NHS does'nt work because of the selfish twats who "work" in it.

I always wonder about the amount spent on stuff that’s not actually the necessities - artwork for instance. I know that we don’t want hospitals to be bare, sterile places but surely when the organisation is in such dire straits we should be focusing on staff, not niceties?

Disagree hugely. What about the people who have to stay in hospital months on end ? I'm sure your home is cosy ? Has nice pictures and is decorated to your taste ? Why should patients stay in a hospital that looks so sterile and dry. Art really improves the environment and the patient's outlook.

All of you busy explaining how dreadful it is being an accountant or a lawyer need to remember one very important difference. When someone fucks up in those professions nobody dies. Doctors hold people's lives in their hands.

I'm astonished you should think the comparison with any other profession is valid or they should be begrudged their salaries and pensions. I do begrudge accountants, lawyers and particularly bankers their megabucks, at the end of the day all they do is make rich people richer. How can you compare that with healing people and saving their lives?

Some of you need a reality check.

All of you busy explaining how dreadful it is being an accountant or a lawyer need to remember one very important difference. ....I'm astonished you should think the comparison with any other profession is valid

If you bother to read back, it's doctors etc who are the ones whingeing about their deal and comparing themselves to other professions. Accountants and lawyers on here are just replying to that and defending themselves against quite ridiculous assertions. The vast majority of accountants and lawyers are actually pretty poorly paid considering the years of exams, etc - average salaries are usually around £40k-£60k for qualified/experienced, less in the more run down poorer parts of the country. Yes, there are a minority who are on mega bucks, especially in the city, but they're the minority. We've had recruitment agencies offering us qualified chartered accountants with salary expectations of only £28k for f/t - that's the reality of life outside the main cities. You can't compare the pay of elite City professionals with bog-standard doctors, just as you can't compare it with bog-standard lawyers or accountants.