to ask if you can afford a 'private' school in the UK but have chosen to send your child/children to a state school why?

[Foreverexhausted]

My three year old DD has just started a nursery attached to a fee paying school. I chose the nursery because it is by far the best nursery in the area but unfortunately we can't afford to send her to the school itself as fees are £15k per year per child and we have two children.

We have friends who could afford private schooling but their children are in state schools and then others who can't afford it but are just scraping by because they like the status of children attending a private school.

@DieAntword...Smart dad indeed you had there! Decisions within families these days are way way more democratic than when I was a kid, when most things were pretty much presented as a fait accompli. It's one thing saying "if you could afford it what would you do?" Kids and their wants and desires are a big part of the picture too.
@Ennirem - yr DP's story is interesting and he was probably stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm a comp girl, but got bullied (not too badly) for being smart. Every time I got a test back you'd hear whispers of what did x get? It pissed me off. If those marks ever slipped, the teasing was awful.
The culture within private schools re wealth and background really varies I'd say. I can only tell you that at my kids 2 schools, other students are admired for their talents, abilties and personality - not what their parents do as a job or how rich they are. They're 15 and 17 so old enough to spot an arsehole!

Totally agree about the culture of the school being key, Tinkobell I was the same - it was deeply uncool to be clever at my comp. It was one of my worries when my dd went secondary but at her school (state single sex academic strict) its not like that at all they want to do well. When I ask her about it she looks blank. My sister used to purposefully do less well on tests she worked out didn't matter which as a parent I find shocking!

Yet again you can't say "all private schools are x and state schools y" because of the huge disparity. My mother was taught at her public school that anyone that didn't attend a private school was beyond the pale and she was shocked when she got to university and realised her state educated peers was as clever if not cleverer than her!

Tinkobell - I'm willing to take my chances with the state school system knowing full well the kids may get a 'superior' education elsewhere cos I think they'll do ok anyway. They don't have to have the very best of everything in life.

lethaldrizzle I must say I find that attitude very refreshing. Even if Im someone who can’t quite escape the best of everything compulsion - including for schooling.

I went to private school at a time when Comprehensive schools in that part of London were utterly beyond the pale even for 'right on' middle class families.
I still do not think I got a good education out of it - academically or socially

My kids went to a comp.
Not the shite comp nearby, the better comp up the road, but still a comp (no admission criteria at all)
They then went to the mega state 6th form in Winchester.
They have both come out of school with a much better education than I got.
and the numbers moving from private secondary to the state 6th form support my view

Despite sending both my children to private secondary (for a variety of reasons, SEN provision being one, having been horribly failed in the state sector), I don't think it's going to automatically propel them into a successful life. When it comes to work experience and contacts, I actually think we as parents (and the careers of our friends) will give them an enormous leg up - contacts in Big 4 accountancy firms, Bank of England, top tier law firms, ad agencies, TV production companies, high end retail, aviation industry, doctors, teachers etc etc etc.

I fully acknowledge that they will be lucky to have this leg up, but it will have little to do with their schooling, everything to do with their social 'standing' (for want of a better word). They'll have grown up with their 'normal' seeing the adults around them working in household name companies - that's an inequality very difficult to rectify. I know there's some great work where companies are trying to do mentoring schemes and similar in more disadvantaged areas, but I think there's so much wrapped up in a person's norms, it's such an enormous hurdle.

I'm not saying it's right, but I'm suggesting a private education in and of itself isn't really what's causing inequality in society. We talk about white privilege when discussing race, and this can be extrapolated so much further. Yes I'm trying to do the best by my children by sending them private (and thankful we have choices available to us), but I'm also passing down my privilege of a good upbringing/education/career, which was passed down from my parents' achievements etc.

I went to a comp. It wasn't a particularly leafy comp, just a bog standard one. I ended up with a first in law from Oxford and am still in touch with my old tutors to continue my education through debate, exchange of views etc. I'm not trying to brag, I just am trying to answer the question of why I don't think private is worth it - really just because I don't see anything wrong with state education and I prefer to participate in a system that I value rather than opt out. Same reasons why I use the NHS really.

Oh and I have to smile at all the assertions of state school children being able to relate to anyone, and private school children being socially awkward, and then in the next sentence stating they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between their adult friendships on who was privately/state educated. Which is it?

Anecdotally, those in my life who had a public school education (so boarding school and top day schools) have been many of the loveliest, most inclusive people I've met in my life, capable of talking to anyone on any level.

I fully acknowledge that they will be lucky to have this leg up, but it will have little to do with their schooling, everything to do with their social 'standing' (for want of a better word).

Totally agree. I made no contacts of any use whatsoever at my leading London day school. My kids who are state educated will get a leg up and I’m happy with that. Through friends and family we’ve senior contacts in law, the city, hedge funds, TV, accountancy, property and more. They’ll use us for work experience for their kids and we will do the same. We know people who know people and I have no qualms in using those connections, after all, it’s all about contacts you build up over time.

I can’t help my children though if they want to go into trades. But those who work in plumbing, electrics, building surely do the same thing, introducing their children to their friends and doing each other a favour. Why is that different if it’s in a professional environment?

I just looked my old school to see if my assessment of bog standard was accurate. Ofsted rates it as requiring improvement and Mumsnet ranks it as second worst in the city, more or less. So probably a bit worse than bog standard, but still churning out a decent education imo.

Ennirem
I didn’t just let them choose randomly though. We visited schools they liked the sound of and we talked about the pros and cons of each.
If they had wanted to full board on the other side of the country for example, they would have needed to come up with decent reasons (not just best friend is going/Malory Towers/ The dog was adorable etc )

I find these discussions about whether or not private is 'worth it' quite depressing. As if the measure of a successful education is status and earning potential in later life. As if someone attaining a certain career/status/salary either proves or disproves that state or private was the best option.

Contrary to popular belief, not everybody is sent to private school for status, contacts, future earning potential etc. I admit the majority probably are. But some are there because for whatever reason it was the only place they would be happy or flourish, and they were lucky enough to have parents who could make it happen.

@carrie74. ....when I read your post about private school giving your kids a leg up, contacts etc my heart just sunk!
My DH and I are state educated but our kids are at a private school. He hires for top 4 consultancies at experienced and grad level. He would NEVER give a kid he knew a "leg up". When he hires he quite rightly expects more from people who've had all the benefits of a private education; in fact way more. The people that impress him most and he hires are those that have built themselves from nothing. These firms hire internationally and really British private school 'kudos' is rapidly dying - meritocracy matters and hiring process ensures this is the case. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Something just about this thread brought the memory of that poster and her amusing herself creating a fantasy alter ego who was part of the 1% with her houses and private schools etc

Actually, I said I couldn't afford to buy a second home in Devon or Cornwall. I also said that I thought it would be too much hassle (and not worth the money) to run a second home - but if I had a spare £500K lying around I might be persuaded to change my mind - in which case my dh would probably call me a hypocrite and laugh at me for months. But I don't have the luxury of choice in the matter. I am suggesting that some of you are displaying a moral high ground, when in fact you cannot afford school fees in any case (or not without scrimping and saving and generally having a miserable life). Who knows whether Diane Abbott wrestled with her conscience before sending her ds to a private secondary school - she did have the luxury of choice (and found herself living in the wrong London postcode for a good school) - and she chose to pay.

And why should fee paying parents pay VAT on school fees when we already subsidize state education via taxes, or pay extra for our dcs to attend university, so that you can spend your money (so you say) on numerous holidays abroad? What are you going to cut back on for the greater good?

Oh and I have to smile at all the assertions of state school children being able to relate to anyone, and private school children being socially awkward

Especially when the child is a girl and the parents have gone out of their way to chose a single-sex girls' school. How is that mixing with everyone if there are no boys at the school?! Disadvantaged girls are acceptable classmates - but not disadvantaged boys.

And why should fee paying parents pay VAT on school fees when we already subsidize state education via taxes, or pay extra for our dcs to attend university, so that you can spend your money (so you say) on numerous holidays abroad? What are you going to cut back on for the greater good?
I agree about VAT. But you're not really subsidizing state school....you might well need it if circumstances change at any time for you. What's the extra that you're paying for university v state kids???

What's the extra that you're paying for university v state kids???
One of the suggestions us fee paying parents should have imposed on us.

Because I don’t think private school is necessary at primary level and we have a child with additional needs (ASD). We want both our children in the same primary school for at least sometime. We also want our children to be part of the local community and local church and the primary we have chosen provides this and has amazing pastoral care too. We hope to send dd to private school for secondary if it is the right school for her and she passes the entrance exam.

That's kind of missing he context though cake. The question put was why someone would ever think private education wasn't worth it? And unless you have some particular reason to think your DC wouldn't flourish at state then why would it factor in your decision?

Oh and I have to smile at all the assertions of state school children being able to relate to anyone, and private school children being socially awkward, and then in the next sentence stating they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between their adult friendships on who was privately/state educated. Which is it?

Good point.

@tinkobell but that's my point - it's not the kids' school that gives them the leg-up - it'll be when they do work experience, they'll have lots of options that may be harder to access for disadvantaged children. They'll know of the breadth of professions and careers that are in the world, as they'll have seen their friends' parents and their parents' friends working in these industries.

I don't think my children are making these contacts at school - they've made them in our community (most of which send their kids to state schools, but are scattered around the world).

Jacques we'd discuss the full range of options if I went down that route. But as the PP says, I wouldnt give her final say unilaterally - we'd discuss and come to an agreement. You might not think it from this thread but I'm actually quite open minded 😁 - if someone can argue me out of my pov I actually find it quite refreshing!

Carrie what you (and others on this thread) are doing when you have this "first you said this about private schools, then you said this other contradictory thing, which is it?" as if it's some massive gotcha is conflating totally different POVs coming to broadly the same conclusion. If you find anywhere where an individual poster has contradicted themselves in this way the by all means "aha!" away, but you can't say "person A is against private school for this reason, but person B is against it for this entirely contradictory reason - surely this invalidates any opposition to private schools?" It's very lazy argument. In this case it's actually important to play the man not the ball, as there are dozens of balls all bouncing towards the same goal from totally different directions!

Just mulling but I am interested in all the responses that say " how would you do that?" When it comes to changes to eg charitable tax status for private schools, allocation of school places etc. I'm a civil servant. Making changes to law and policy like this is our job - it's not that hard if it's what our political masters want. The status quo is not set in stone

@Emirem sorry for not trawling back through 700+ posts to find the post I thought I had seen that made both statements in the one post. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

I thought I'd been clear that I don't think one system is superior to another, but that I don't think advantages in life are just about a school. I acknowledge that we're lucky to be able to choose schools that we felt were best for our individual children. Would I like there to be a completely level playing field in education? Yes absolutely, do I feel I'm contributing to the problem by segregating my children. Yup, you betcha, do I feel good about it? Nope. But I also have to do what I think is right by my kids.

Then you and I are on the same page Carrie. It's not the responsibility of parents to resist the lures of private schools. It's the responsibility of the voters to create a situation where that lure does not exist. Sometimes we're one, sometimes the other. Luckily we only have to be our altruistic selves every 4 years or so!