To think Gordon Brown is right about UC

[Orangeblossom1976]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-credit-gordon-brown-poll-tax-riots-benefits-dwp-roll-out-nationwide-a8576751.html

Remember what happened when they tried the tax credits cuts? I think thus might be worse. And with Brexit too...but oh I forgot it is the end of Austerity. Right.

ivykaty Re the CAB

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/tory-conference-charitys-silence-on-universal-credit-deaths-hours-after-minister-announces-51m-funding/

"And I have a dying man petrified that when he dies his widow is going to be forced onto UC and made to look for work almost straight away. It really isn't great"

Time to grieve is becoming a luxury only for those well off.

And yet CAb have accepted a hefty sum of money to help support people on UC ...they can’t be that up in arms about it

It was still a conservative gov that started the tax credit system, yes, it's been changed over the years, the concept was the same.

You're trying to fudge this quite a bit, it was one of New Labours flag ship policies that they championed at every opportunity, at no point was it considered a continuation of an existing Tory policy because at the time it was introduced there was a fall in real wages, it was to Labours attempt to redress that situation.

Wages should be good enough, we shouldn't need tax credits, the fault of major and Thatcher.

So you are doing exactly the same as what you are sniping at others for doing. Labour had 13 years to address the problem but instead changed it into the system we have today and in fact pushed it to the extreme that zero hour contracts become the norm as a sweet spot of working 16 hours was introduced.

You are just as guilty of blaming the previous bosses than those you laugh at.

So yeah, you are just as guilty of talking shit.

From 1992 Abolition of the wages councils and the threat to the lower paid.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/12577696.Abolition_of_wages_councils_and_threat_to_the_lower_paid/

I would like to see the personal allowance for tax raised to £15k and income tax increased by 2% up to £40k and 3% increase over £40k and at the next tax bracket increase again

Also raise the minimum wage every year by 3%

At least then those on lower incomes get to keep more of there earnings and a couple working full time earning minimum wage would only pay income tax on £64 per year

What is the point in the government giving out UC to those working only to take it back in tax?

And I have a dying man petrified that when he dies his widow is going to be forced onto UC and made to look for work almost straight away. It really isn't great

No it isn't, but likewise those who are employed have to go back to work too.

Here is Brown obviously crediting Tory Tax credits for his pet project.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/apr/15/election2005.uk2

If you try and laugh at others for "talking shit" it might be best you have a basic grasp of why they might be talking shit and not repeat the same thing yourself.

Also people have forgotten the problems with the introduction of Tax credits, maybe pick up the book The Blunders of Our Governments

user13928237 I'd strongly suggest you do a little research first, perhaps start with the ONS. You're figures are pretty wonky. Conservatives haven't gradually brought down the deficit and their policies are far behind the rest of Europe which has been in recovery for quite some time.

CAB have accepted the money because they have identified a need for the service it allows them to offer - I.e. supporting people through the nightmare of universal credit applications. They are a charity, not a political campaigning organisation, so turning it down to make a point would be grossly irresponsible.

Gilead

What ONS figures are you looking at that shows the Conservatives havent brought down the defecit?

Even from this years:

General government deficit (or net borrowing) was £40.7 billion in the financial year ending March 2018, a decrease of £6.5 billion compared with the financial year ending March 2017; this is equivalent to 2.0% of GDP, 1.0 percentage points below the reference value of 3.0 % set out in the Protocol on the Excessive Deficit Procedure.

This is the second consecutive financial year in which government deficit has been below the 3.0% Maastricht reference value.

You getting confused with Debt? 

It's a bit like they are trying to merge working and non-working benefits together (makes sense) but then making them all like the non-working ones...

I was just reading that the tax credit cuts which were so much opposed in recent years were based on cutting the rates from losing 43p for every pound earned to 48p, and reducing the 'work allowances' (amount you can earn before any is reduced). UC reduces it by 63p, so a big change. As well as reducing the work allowances.

It's sneaking in the tax credit cuts, and then some, and calling it reform.

I sometimes think that austerity and UC are really just eugenics or population control under a different name. Over a 7 year period, 120,000 people died shortly after being declared fit for work. The disabled people who get to keep their benefits have the amount slashed by UC. Local governments don't have the funding to provide care for those worst off.

And even people who are working full time and paying into the system can't make rent. It actually seems designed to kill off people with disabilities and low earners.

UC is an evil scheme designed to punish the poor for being poor and to keep them in poverty. It should never have been implemented. It must be reversed.

(also the deficit was falling before the 2010 election and the Tories coming in, after which it stalled, not to mention their introduction of ideological austerity)

UC is a system designed to prevent £2bn list in overpayments

But is a decoy from corporate business avoiding paying far more in tax loop holes

2 billion lost in overpayments? Any source for that?

Actually, I have found the articles related to overpayments. Specifically housing benefits, which until UC were administered by local government. Is there yet any evidence that the new system is going to be more effective?

Sure, they can save money by skimming off £200 per claimant, but that's not actually addressing the problem which is down to individuals calculating housing benefits using formulas they don't fully understand.

Whoeantstokniw there are new systems in place so benefits can see directly what wages are being earns without relying on claimants disclosures. Also another system to highlight biggest increases in wages first and make them a priority

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/644287/hb-debt-recoveries-to-march-2017.pdf

whowantstoknow

Overpayments aren’t benefit fraud but often errors due to the systems used & not the claimant

@Alltheprettyseahorses

(also the deficit was falling before the 2010 election and the Tories coming in, after which it stalled, not to mention their introduction of ideological austerity)

If you are going to bang a political drum, make sure you know what you are talking about.

The deficit was £103 billion in 2010, in the 2 years previous we broke our record as it reached £90 billion

www.theguardian.com/business/2009/apr/22/budget-deficit-record

So, no it was far from going down.

well i can guarantee that in the up coming budget they will throw in something to try and soften the shit storm that is going on

i hope people are not taken in my any sweetner and up the rage still at UC

dont fall for it

Floppy the only sweetener will be for the old and rich - there won’t be a sweetener for the poor as they’ll never vote Tory so why bother with a seeetnet?

i think they will, they know the hatred is gaining pace

it wont be much but us British are daft like that and except it

@ivykaty44 Some low income households do vote Tory. Mansfield is a prime example, they voted in a Tory because he feeds the anti immigration/ anti EU rhetoric that they fall for. They're happy to overlook that he's shafting them because he tells them what they want to hear.

Bombardier and a sweetener isn’t needed is it just a promise of some racism