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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have a problem with this....

63 replies

IWonderedLonelyAsACloud · 08/10/2018 13:49

I've name changed for this but I am a regular poster.

My DH is generally a lovely man. He is very vocally supportive of women’s rights and, as the father of a daughter, challenges obvious sexism when he sees it. It is one of the reasons I love him. However, something happened last night that makes me think that sexism is so ingrained within our society that even ‘nice’ men do not realise when they are being sexist.
Last night, I asked DH to massage my head – I had an awful headache. He did but was in a silly mood and kept pinching my nose – gently, but irritating. I asked him not to several times and he made a joke of pinching it. I said not to bother with the massage and got up, he apologised, said he was being silly and that he would do it properly. Then he started jokily tapping on my head which I said was painful and again, he carried on! At which point I got up and told him I wanted him to stop. I was mildly irritated because I just wanted him to rub my sore temples without being silly, but it was no big deal really. There was no malice in his actions, he was just being daft and I knew this, but I wasn’t in the mood for daftness, due to the headache. He then got the hump with me because I wouldn’t return to lying down let him ‘do it properly’. We watched TV and he started huffing and puffing that I had over reacted to his joke and that I was being unfair to him ‘just because he had misread the situation’. The truth was, I wasn’t mad at him in the first instance, I understood he was being silly but I didn’t like it so I stopped it. I gave him two chances to listen to me and he didn’t, so I said stop and that made him mardy at me! At this point I did get annoyed – because the only way I could have avoided him getting the hump was to allow him to continue ‘joking’ and not to have said no wasn’t it? When I put that statement to him, he then saw my point of view and apologised. But now I am annoyed. It annoys me that this nice, educated, reasonable man still thinks that his feelings should come before mine. I know it was a very small thing, but as a mother of a daughter it bothers me that they might ever be in a situation where they feel the need to go along with what a man wants to avoid him getting grumpy.
The thing that really bothers me though, is that in my 20’s, I’d have apologised when he got grumpy. Which is ridiculous. I am writing this down because I have been wrestling with it a bit today and I would just like some opinions. I know that the mumsnet jury will tell me if I am making a mountain out of a molehill.

OP posts:
Celebelly · 08/10/2018 14:27

Regardless or whether it's sexist or not, I'd have massive problems with a partner (or anyone I trusted) carrying on doing something that I had asked them several times not to. It's just disrespectful.

I sometimes ask DP to massage my back at the moment as I'm pregnant and sometimes get backache. I'd be pretty upset if he continued 'being playful' when I'd said 'Please don't do that, it's painful'. Who does that to someone? If something I was doing was annoying to my partner and causing him pain (like the OP's husband tapping on her sore head) then I'd stop immediately when told.

DayManChampionOfTheSun · 08/10/2018 14:29

I dont understand how this is sexist. I have known many men and women get the hump because someone didn't want to do something or other.

lilyheather1 · 08/10/2018 14:35

Hmm not sure if it's sexist, I think the point about him expecting his feelings to come first is not necessarily symptomatic of a men first, women second feeling, but perhaps more of a relationship problem? Do you find the two of you are equals in other parts of your relationship? You feel that as your partner he should want to help you, which he did, with the problem at hand. He obviously misread the tone of the action and thought injecting some humour would help. Him getting aggy at you asking him to stop because he wasn't doing it right isn't sexist, he's probably a little hurt and embarrassed that he fucked up and is deflecting.

PuppyMonkey · 08/10/2018 14:35

He got in a mard, because you got in a mard. It's just life when you're part of a close couple imho - nothing to do with him thinking you should put his feelings first.

slapbitchface · 08/10/2018 14:42

Gosh if that's the most you have to worry about lucky you

Wheresthel1ght · 08/10/2018 14:42

I don't think he was being sexist at all.

However, you asked him to stop and he continued. He then got the hump. That is gaslighting.

Perhaps put it to him in terms of sex, would he have continued to have sex or pester for sex after you said no? It might make him realise that he has ignored a boundary.

TheViceOfReason · 08/10/2018 14:44

Sounds like he was just being a bit of a thoughtless twit. Trying to mark this as sexism seems a bit of a stretch.

IWonderedLonelyAsACloud · 08/10/2018 14:45

Thanks for the perspective. It is appreciated and I am listening and prepared to accept I am wrong. If I don't come back to the thread it is because I have listened (and I have work later).

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 08/10/2018 14:45

It is sexist when you consider how males and females are socialised into behaving.

Had OP done that to him he would have told her, probably quite 'assertively' stop doing it and she would have stopped immediately. Well no, she wouldn't have done it in the first place, as making people uncomfortable through physical 'banter' isn't a female amusement.

But he could do it to her as, well, he is in it for 'the bants' and she, being female, won't say 'fuck off that hurts/annoys/pisses me off'. She will consider his ego first and foremost. Cos that is what society teaches us... boys will be boys and all that shite!

That gender stereotyping comes from somewhere. And we reinforce it daily, through all the small interactions.

IWonderedLonelyAsACloud · 08/10/2018 14:47

Just caught your post curious - that is exactly what I was trying to explain. That is exactly how it felt. Thank you.

OP posts:
onalongsabbatical · 08/10/2018 14:48

I get you and I agree with you.

onalongsabbatical · 08/10/2018 14:49

And yes to CuriousaboutSamphire's post.

Eliza9917 · 08/10/2018 14:52

@PickledChutney Mon 08-Oct-18 14:17:24
Are you part of the #metoo movement of something OP? Seriously overthinking the sexism there. Not everything is about sex/sexism/gender etc.

What is wrong with the #MeToo movement then? Do you think all those women shouldn't have come out with their stories or stood up for themselves?

Jux · 08/10/2018 14:55

I think you're spot on about his feelings mattering more than yours. That's why it's sexist, male privilege of always being more important and what they want/feel matters more than what a woman wants/needs.

He knew you were in pain. He knew that was why you asked him to rub your temples. But he felt like jerking around, so he did, because what he felt like doing was more important to him than your pain.

Of course it's sexist. How many of you would do that to your partner? "I know you're in pain and I could help, but actually I prefer to make things worse for you, as it would amuse me and make me feel ......" what?

VoleClock · 08/10/2018 15:01

I'm with Curious - the sexism bit comes from socialisation. A woman is much less likely to continue 'being silly' after a man has asked her to stop.

PeasAreGreat · 08/10/2018 15:02

how on earth was this sexist

ShizeItsWeegie · 08/10/2018 15:03

I can see a sexist slant here. he wouldn't have done that to another man would he? Carried on being a twat despite having his twattery pointed out. He wouldn't have got into a sulk with a man. OP I agree with you.

ShizeItsWeegie · 08/10/2018 15:05

Jux has put it better than me though. It is sexist.

blueyacht · 08/10/2018 15:06

You lost me at ‘as the father of a daughter, challenges obvious sexism‘. Gets right on my tits when men declare they’re feminists because they now have a daughter.

NKFell · 08/10/2018 15:06

I agree with CuriousaboutSamphire

SlowlyShrinking · 08/10/2018 15:11

It’s also a message from him to you ‘don’t bother me again if you’re not feeling well. I don’t see it as my job to look after you’

Pebblespony · 08/10/2018 15:11

I had a friend who would think it was funny to do the same. She's a girl.

Aspergallus · 08/10/2018 15:13

IWonderedLonelyAsACloud

I get you. My DH is the same -we have a daughter and he is definitely very aware of sexism.

However the situation you describe has happened so bloody often and I have definitely felt it is a gendered issue but found it difficult to articulate.

Usually something like needing a foot massage or pedicure (while pregnant) or a back rub/itch somewhere I can’t read.

Cue jokey behaviour which inadvertently hurts me, or rough handling which he tells me, “don’t be daft” this is what is needed.

My preferences are downplayed. My objections undermined. My clear NOs dismissed. I have to get angry and insistent for him to stop and actually listen, and then he’s the one who is upset and put out.

There is something in this about my consent being less listened to than if the situation was reversed, my discomfort not being heard over his opinion on what is necessary (for my body), my views and thoughts being undermined...and yes, that I should simply be grateful and any criticism is unwarranted.

It depresses me that even an enlightened man like him behaves in this way, as though he has more authority over my body than me, as though his humour and fun should be indulged at my physical expense.

I also get why others dismiss this, it’s a microaggression of course, and an unconscious one at that. But it is one that has caused me upset on a few occasions. Though I may have finally got through to him the last time this came up.

Aspergallus · 08/10/2018 15:15

*somewhere I can’t reach -not read!

BonfiresOfInsanity · 08/10/2018 15:17

I understood your point OP and agree that CuriousaboutSamphire expresses it well. It's not overt sexism just that more subtle expectations of gender stereotypes and socialised behaviour.