re 'creative' colleague

[Lydiaatthebarre]

Someone I work with has just had a telling off from her manager about the kind of clothes she wears to work - long hippy type skirts, flip flops, tie dyed t-shirts, huge jumpers with patterns and slogans.

She is now complaining that she is a creative person and her clothes reflect her personality and creativity and she doesn't feel comfortable in the 'type of clothes the rest of you wear' because she's artistic and needs to express this.

AIBU to think she's talking a load of rubbish. There are actually a few genuinely creative people in here who write, act or sell craftwork in their free time. They wear perfectly normal clothes to work, to reflect the job they do.

What I wore to my interview here isn't at all what I or others wear day to day. Doesn't tell us anything very much.

"What isn't OK is shaming or bullying someone for feeling uncomfortable with professional officewear"

No one has shamed or bullied her. Her manager spoke to her in private, and apparently said that while her clothes were very nice they weren't really suitable in an office environment. It was the woman herself who told all and sundry.

She is a general administrator who provides cover when the receptionist is at lunch and on her morning coffee break.

I'm with your colleague on this one. I fail to see what impact clothing has on one's ability to do one's job. But then I've been pulled up for attending work 'looking like a bag of spanners' as one senior colleague put it. I frankly give no shits. I'm clothed, clean, and that's an end to it as far as I'm concerned. Today I taught a 4 hour lecture wearing ripped jeans and sandals. It neither added nor detracted from what I had to say. My son's teacher has arms covered in skull tattoos. She's the best teacher he's had yet. My ex husband has a face full of piercings and is excellent at his job. I do not see any intelligence in an attitude that judges someone's abilities based on their personal preferences for their own appearance.

"You and your co workers sound a bit jealous tbh op, like you haven’t got the guts to be a bit different and resent anyone that does."

As I said, several of my colleagues are very creative in their free time. I actually have one of only two creative roles within the company, but wear clothes that are suitable for a working environment. We're not expected to wear high heels and tight skirts or anything like that. Today I'm wearing a black above the knee woollen dress, opaque tights and wine ankle boots. Comfortable but in line with general dress standards here.

No one's 'jealous' of her, just irritated by her 'I'm so much more artistic than all of you' comments.

There is an unofficial dress code in most places though. People assume that adults will wear proper shoes as a minimum.

Which could include trainers!

I think the fact she covers for the receptionist a couple of times a day gives new context here. That makes her client facing so I can understand her being asked to wear something a bit smarter. However, without official guidelines on dress in place, the company would have a hard time enforcing anything. Maybe it's time for HR to review their policies.

Plenty of people wear smarter clothes to their interview than they do in their job

You're right, but IME - and I've employed hundreds - most tend to wear at interview a smarter version of what they'd wear anyway, rather than a completely different style. So in this case I might have expected a full but smart skirt, a quality jumper and a pair of nice flats in place of the flip flops

Which is why I wondered if she actually turned up in a business suit instead ...

I think she's the one who is trying to put other people down, by implying that they wear boring clothes because they're obviously just not as creative as her.

Lots of people aren't that comfortable in 'smart', professional clothes. They wear them because - rightly or wrongly - in this society it's part of the job to project that image.

And anyone who relies so heavily on their 'creative' clothing for their 'creative' credentials and self-esteem really does sound like they haven't got the personality to back that up.

Anyone who believes all you have to do to be an artist is to wear a limp maxi skirt may not have quite grasped the idea of making things. Unless you count making a fool of yourself.

Her manager spoke to her in private - It was the woman herself who told all and sundry

So in other words she could have kept this private, but instead chose to blab to others at work ... interesting

Her being customer-facing obviously makes a difference too, so overall I agree with a PP that it might be wise for management to set out some formal expectations (and perhaps to expect fireworks when they have!!)

If she's a receptionist then it's fair to ask her to dress in a style that suits the company image. But the company should set out what this is.

I work in an office. flip flops are banned even on dress down days. Elf and safety.

I hate clothes fascism, it really gives me the rage. Thankfully, I work for an employer where what you do matters far, far more than what you wear.

As long as people are decent, clean and any slogans on t-shirts are not of such a nature that they might reflect badly on the organisation, I don't see why anyone gives a shit. And if the management do give a shit, they should have a dress code, so everyone is clear what is expected of them.

She sounds like a slob and would come across as cant be bothered rather than creative. And by telling everyone about this conversation she sounds attention seeking on top of that.

OpJob title isn't indicative of creativity and you and your colleagues sound very much like a bunch of superior twunts.
I have a very good arts degree from top Scottish university and I run my own successful creative business, but I have on occasion worked in offices in admin/ clerical roles, because I had to eat and pay bills.
Has it occurred to you that -

1. that she might have took the job to be in a creative environment in the hope of breaking into a more creative career ?
2. that wearing a bit of colour cheers her up ?

She's asserting that she is creative, how is that a challenge to your creativity. If her job is quite stifling and boring maybe her clothes are the only outlet for her creativity at the moment. I have worked around people like you and I am so glad I am now self employed.

I think you've misread my OP eggstoast. I have no problem with her wanting to be creative, or with how she dresses. My issue is with her going around stating that she shouldn't have to wear the same clothes as 'the rest of you' because she's so creative and artistic. I think that's rude and annoying.

Where did I criticise her job title or say that anyone in the office looked down on her. The only reason I mentioned that I work in a creative area is because it was relevant in my reply to another poster.

And the only reason I mentioned my colleague's job title is because posters wanted to know if she dealt with customers.

Can I also ask why one or two posters seem to think there's a mean girl vibe going on?

No one has said a word to this woman about her clothes, and no one has ever mentioned them to me. Her manager called her in for a discreet word, and it is the woman herself who is talking about it to all and sundry, insulting everyone else in the process by telling us that her clothes are evidence of her creativity and she shouldn't have to dress 'like the rest of us', ie 'the rest of us' have no creativity.

Well if she was creative and good at it then she could work the kind of job where she gets to wear those kinds of clothes. If her creativity is sub par then she needs to suck it up and accept that she isn't as artistic as she thinks, her being forces into office wear to earn a living will therefore be an excellent reflection of the type of person she is.

Well done racecardriver for perfectly encapsulating the attitude of the op and her colleagues to the general administrator / occasional receptionist.

Have you tried telling her that by talking about how creative she is with her clothing, she is saying that you all aren't? It might be thoughtlessness rather than aimed rudeness.

I get what you mean. I could also be called "creative" in my dress sense, but Monday - Friday at work, I tone it down, while still being me. I don't have to, there is no written rule, but it just seems appropriate in a work setting. Being at work is not about my self-expression, iyswim.

Bit late back to this. Picking up on the 8 notes of music analogy...

that composer would really struggle to write anything not completely anodyne.

@claraschu - I might have been unclear, because I think you've misunderstood.

I'm simply referring to the observation that most Western music (from classical to pop) is written using the 8 notes of a major or minor scale - maybe with the odd accidental thrown in, but that still only gets you up to 12 notes at most, the 12 notes you find on any piano, repeated over several octaves. That's all composers work with, and there's nothing anodyne about it - in fact that's what's I find amazing about a piece by Bach or Beethoven, that they innovate wonderfully within conventional key structures.

I count just 9 different note names in use in the first four bars of Clara Schumann's Piano Trio, Op 17, for example.

OP, I mentioned mean girls, but I wasn’t suggesting that about you, sorry if it came across that way. I was commenting on the disparaging comments some posters were making about “I’m mad, me” types. Mainly trying to point out (clumsily it turns out), that there are other personality types that I personally find more objectionable in a workplace.

Hope that’s clearer and sorry for setting that particular hare running.

Well if she was creative and good at it then she could work the kind of job where she gets to wear those kinds of clothes.

Uh, I think we all know what the first requirement usually is to be considered a Great Artist...