Who was in the wrong? (Driving related)

[PookieDo]

Car A and B are driving down a dual carriageway that has a section of 50mph speed limit and the rest is 70

Car A comes out of the 50 section in the left lane and picks up speed, coming up behind car C still going 50. The road is pretty empty bar car B which is in the right hand lane some distance behind - at least 20 + car lengths who has also just come out of the 50 zone and picking up speed

Car A sees car B in mirror but due to speed of car C either has to brake or overtake Car A pulls out and overtakes car C quickly going back into left lane but does not realise car B is going 90mph.

Car B is very angry and had to slam on brakes although car A does not stay in right hand lane for any longer than needed to overtake 1 car

Car B driver flashes lights beeps horn multiple times even once has passed car A, then makes offensive gestures pulling level with car A then at the next roundabout opens window and shouts at car A driver for being a stupid ***

Clearly car B did not react very well but was this proportionate to what car A did, a normal driving manoeuvre making the assumption that car B was going around 70mph and therefore had plenty of time?

Well if they are in the overtaking lane overtaking vehicles and although accelerating hard not exceeding the speed limit they are doing nothing wrong.
I am a pretty defensive driver and I usually hazard spot, so a slower vehicle pulling out in front of me because they were overtaking an even slower vehicle is a potential hazard I would spot hopefully.
As the last vehicle in the line it is your responsibility not to rear end the ones in front however unaware they are of the risks they are creating.

@pumkinspicetime

I do agree with you
At some point a vehicle may need to overtake a slower car. Just as I am responsible for using my judgement so are they - I honestly believe they had the chance to slow down with the gap I left but didn’t take it because they were angry. I don’t believe there wasn’t enough time to see me and adjust their own speed. Not trying to pass blame to them because I can’t assume everyone is doing the same speed but the responsibility surely doesn’t just lie with me if I want to change lanes and leave a space this may mean the other driver taking their foot off the accelerator to allow rather than choosing to slam their brakes on to make a point to me

People claiming the person in front is responsible are talking out their arses.

When it comes to insurance, the car behind is always at fault. You have a responsibility to maintain enough distance to brake effectively and prevent accidents in the event of unanticipated actions.

If you plough into the back of someone at a roundabout because you assumed they were going to set off into a gap in the traffic and they didn't, you would be entirely to blame, and the insurance claim would reflect that.

Car B should not have been doing 90.

Car B should have been travelling at a speed that enabled them to anticipate and adjust to changing road conditions up ahead.

Car B is a fucking cretin for not only speeding at 90, but also flashing, honking, and leaning out a window screaming.

It's not rocket science.

The car behind isn't always at fault if someone pulls out on them.

If a car pulls in front of you then they are responsible for any accident caused.

but I feel that car B made an assumption that the clear lane meant that they could go as fast as they wanted and assumed no one else would be trying to gain acceleration out of the 50 zone except them.
But car B is established in this lane, he shouldn’t be forced to take evasive action because someone makes a manoeuvre when it isn’t safe to do so.

I could possibly be stuck here behind car C all the way to the junction’ as there could be 15 cars behind car B
Basing your decision on how long your are going to be stuck beind someone is an incredibly dangerous way to look at it. You should judge it on whether it is safe or not, regardless of how many cars or how long you are going to be stuck for.

No accident happened and I didn’t think it was ALL my fault but both of ours, which is why I asked if an accident had happened it would have most likely been deemed all your fault though. (The other driver was obviously wrong for road rage).

@Sethis if you're driving 70mph in the right hand lane of a dual carriageway and I'm driving 30mph in the left hand lane and decide to pull out in front of you causing you to swerve and crash who is to blame? Is it always the person behind?

When it comes to insurance, the car behind is always at fault

That's not true.

If someone pulls out in front of you (say, from a driveway) with no warning, giving you no time to see them/stop, are you at fault for hitting them?

I honestly believe they had the chance to slow down with the gap I left but didn’t take it because they were angry. I don’t believe there wasn’t enough time to see me and adjust their own speed

Driving with this attitude is what leads to accidents though. You shouldn’t put another driver in a position of having to adjust their speed.
If you make your decision of whether it’s safe to pull out (into another lane, from a junction, at a roundabout etc) on whether it is completely safe - not if it’s safe if another driver adjusts their speed/breaks/slows down for you, you are far less likely to be involved in an accident.
An even safer way to look at it (not always practical but good if you are unsure) is ‘could they hit me if they tried?’ If the answer is no then it’s safe to go!

Car A shouldn't have overtaken at 50 miles an hour when there's a car in the right lane doing 70 or more and is only 20 cars lengths away, of course they'd have to brake suddenly.

You misjudged the speed of car B but also it seems of car C you should have some sort of idea what the car in front of you is doing

When it comes to insurance, the car behind is always at fault. You have a responsibility to maintain enough distance to brake effectively and prevent accidents in the event of unanticipated actions.

That is categorically NOT TRUE.

If in the same lane then generally yes, the car that went into the back of the one in front is at fault.

However where a car has diverged from it's path it's not that clear cut. There are many elements that will come into play.

FWIW I don't believe Car B was doing 90mph - the OP obviously couldn't realistically assess his speed as if she could she wouldn't have made a dangerous manoeuvre. My guess is that the OP underestimated the speed of the car in the outside lane as she wasn't paying attention early enough.

If I'm in the clear outside lane doing 70mph and I see someone doing approximately 50mph in the inside lane whilst I would be cautious and anticipate an overtake from them, I wouldn't necessarily expect that they'd be stupid enough to pull out at that speed so yeah, I'd be pissed off. (I wouldn't behave like Driver B though)

I feel like this road is more dangerous because of the 50 zone that goes to 70. People either bomb out of it to try to catch their time back or pootle down it under the speed limit. I hate the road I don’t think it’s the same as a motorway where there are clearer rules for everyone

I still don’t think I am completely mad on judging space and some aggressive behaviour was likely at fault with Car B but perhaps I had got complacent about taking risks with over taking and won’t anymore!

No one really answered as there is no definitive answer - when is it truely safe to overtake. It’s unlikely you will encounter a truely car free right lane at 9am on a Thursday morning

when is it truely safe to overtake. It’s unlikely you will encounter a truely car free right lane at 9am on a Thursday morning

It's safe to overtake if the right hand lane is clear or if the person in the right hand lane is far enough back and you're able to get to a speed where you can match theirs or get back in the left before they have to take aversive actions. People do this every day, it's really not hard. You just have to use your mirrors!

If car B was doing 90 mph, then the driver should be banned for a very long time, for good if it is not a first offence. If car A cannot judge distance I would question whether or not the driver has a distance vision problem, and needs an eye test.

In addition successive governments who have pandered to the friends of Jeremy Clarkson and not be prepared to ban aggressive drivers and speed limit all cars at 70mph should share some of the blame.

I don’t think it’s the same as a motorway where there are clearer rules for everyone there are clear rules for everyone even on the road you describe. Not sure what you are unclear on?

perhaps I had got complacent about taking risks with over taking and won’t anymore!
That’s really good and not everyone can admit this so fantastic you’ve taken it all on board.

No one really answered as there is no definitive answer - when is it truely safe to overtake. it’s safe to change lanes when there is a big enough gap with a car travelling at such a speed that you pulling into their path will not force them to take evasive action (such as breaking or slowing down). If you are unsure, use the rule ‘could they hit me if they tried?’ If a car is able to speed up a bit and hit you then it’s probably not safe to change lanes. If you are relying on other drivers altering their speed to accommodate your manoeuvre then it’s likely that one time a driver (deliberately or not) won’t do this and you will cause an accident.
In the nicest possible way, it’s honestly a bit worrying that you need to ask when it’s safe to change lanes!

No one really answered as there is no definitive answer - when is it truely safe to overtake. It’s unlikely you will encounter a truely car free right lane at 9am on a Thursday morning

It doesn't have to be car-free, there just needs to be enough space for you to be able to safely pull-out without the car behind you slamming on their brakes or swerving to avoid hitting you. In this case there wasn't, which understandably pissed him off. He shouldn't have been speeding but when someone pulls out in front of you, causing you to slam on the brakes, it's pretty frightening. It happened to recently (someone wasn't looking and pulled out into me at a junction) - I was driving straight on the main road, he was coming out of a side street where he should have stopped but didn't. Luckily I managed to slam my brakes on just in time to avoid being hit but it was bloody scary. He just appeared out of nowhere.

This is one of those threads, isn't it?
OP: AIBU?
Almost all of MN: Yes.

Car A was in the wrong, and did a pretty stupid and dangerous thing. Car B's reaction was ott.

Have you considered getting a bus pass, OP?

It's about anticipating what will happen ahead, and judging speeds. The speed of the traffic travelling ahead of you; the speed of the traffic behind you.

If you see you are catching up on a slow- or slower-moving vehicle, you need to be looking in your rear view mirror to see when there will be an appropriate gap in the traffic to pull out. That might mean it's best to hang back a little from the slow-moving vehicle so that you can then increase your speed to pull out into the overtaking lane. In other words, you give yourself enough room ahead so that you accelerate in the left hand lane, and by the time you pull out into the overtaking lane you are ALREADY MATCHING that lane's speed.

OP It sounds as you gave yourself no space or time by travelling too close up behind car C (the slow car) which meant you had either to brake abruptly or pull out.

Anticipate. Judge speed. Yes my husband has nagged me about this for the last 20 years

So if you'd waited a bit, the whole thing could have been avoided. But you still don't think you are at fault and I don't think anything is going to convince you otherwise.

Only one car was breaking the law and behaving illegally

A should have waited, B should have slowed down. Both in the wrong.

Actually been useful, it has been 20 years since I took my test and you know what, you do get complacent and make assumptions that you are a good driver. It’s been interesting to hear other people’s points of views. I have said all along I was also in some of the wrong by misjudging I just didn’t feel like I was the only one in the wrong. There wasn’t an accident, car B was IMO disproportionally aggressive and unpleasant and breaking the law by speeding. Which they undoubtedly were speeding

I don’t know how any of the silly goady comments are at all required and in any way constructive in an otherwise good debate/opinions such as I need a bus pass 🙄 an eye test 🙄 or should be banned from the road 🙄 I gather each and every one of you have never made even 1 error of judgement and have a gleaming ivory throne you Lord over us idiot plebs down here

The car was some kind of 4x4 Kia or Nissan or something to whoever asked

I just explained why I feel the road is dangerous because people feel they have been delayed in the 50 zone they over compensate when they get out of it, same for most traffic restrictions

I don’t have a particularly speedy car and don’t really want to overtake at all unless I feel like it is usually safe to do so this is not a regular occurance and took me by surprise as I couldn’t work out what had gone wrong but now we have all talked about it I am suitably admonished for my poor abilities