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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think vegetarian mums are selfish?

349 replies

lisabd345 · 02/10/2018 16:23

There's a woman on my Facebook who has a son 6 years old.
She's a vegetarian and she's made sure her son is too.
She's just posted that her son is suffering from iron deficiency and GP has said it's probably due to his diet and the fact he doesn't eat meat....and the GP has gave him medication to take every day and he is crying about it ..so she's asking what to feed him to bring iron levels up.
Aibu to think he should make a decision when he's older if he wants to be vegetarian and not have it forced upon him?

OP posts:
SalemBlackCat · 03/10/2018 09:02

I never said they were. I was discussing something else with another poster. However, it is a very restrictive and very unhealthy way of eating.

SoyDora · 03/10/2018 09:04

I’m completely confused now. What has veganism got to do with banning junk food?! Are meat/eggs/dairy ‘junk’?

Bluelady · 03/10/2018 09:12

Salem, how did I know you'd be on this thread? You're obsessed with this subject and completely irrational. It's like you type in green ink.

pennydrew · 03/10/2018 09:15

Oh dear. I haven’t read through the entire thread but I have a bit of a background in nutrition and personally look to actual professionals for health or nutrition advice. I most certainly do not get myself involved or concerned about other peoples parenting.

For the record: all major Dietetic Associations approve of vegan or vegetarian diets which the American Dietetic Association states is appropriate for every stage of life. That’s all anyone needs to know IMO. Why do you all think you’re qualified to comment? I’m so sick of everyone thinking they’re an expert in nutrition. You’re not.

Why is it only the vegetarian mother who is ‘selfish’ and not omnivore Mums? All parents are surely just raising their kids inlign with their own set of beliefs or way of doing things. Whether that’s taking them to church, taking them out on the farm or raising them vegetarian. Singling out vegetarian mothers is rather mean-spirited.

SalemBlackCat- whatever your obvious personal issue is with vegans, you’re not entitled to spread myths about a subject you’re obviously not trained in. What you’re saying is factually incorrect and not a single Dietetic Association in the world would in any way agree with you, nor does the NHS. There are over 3,000 edible plant foods available at any one time so far from being restrictive, limiting or eliminating animal foods can and often does, lead to more variety. My father only ate meat, dairy or potatoes. Literally. So eating ‘restrictively’ has no association with veganism or vegetarianism.

Re iron: iron deficiency is actually less likely to be associated with dietary deficiency and more often is actually an underlying health issue. This is factual. Look it up. Vegetarians do not suffer from iron deficiency anaemia at a greater rate than those eating meat. Your concern is misplaced.

Improve12 · 03/10/2018 09:16

The problem is that you automatically assume that the natural and normal thing to be is non-vegetarian and that people should start off by being non-vegetarian then explore whether or not they want to be vegetarian, vegan, pescatarian or kosher. This is wrong. There are many vegetarian people in the world who have been vegetarian from birth. These people are very healthy. You can be either vegetarian or non-vegetarian and be very healthy. You can also be either of the 2 and be extremely unhealthy.
To increase iron levels, she could give him a green smoothie with lots of spinach and a bit of orange (vitamin C to help him absorb the iron).

dangermouseisace · 03/10/2018 09:40

Veganism being “dangerous and unhealthy”

Vegan 22 years. At my over 40’s check the nurse said my bloods were the best she’d seen in a good while. I’m also one of the fastest women in my running club. But by Salem’s theory I should probably be dead by now.

My vegetarian GP friends have never suggested to me that Veganism is unhealthy, in the decades I’ve known them.

I brought my kids up veggie until they were old enough to choose for themselves.

Neweternal · 03/10/2018 09:47

@SalemBlackCat This is exactly what happened to me I developed an eating disorder as a result of my parents ludicrous and restrictive diets. My brother now is a vegan constantly unwell and with mental health issues, never away from GP. I think he lacks the testosterone in meat to cope with life. Looking back. at friends houses I would over eat on crap TIL I was sick I was obsessed with food. Only when I became am adult bought my own food and lived on my own did I sort out these issues. I have everything in my house to eat. My son is perfect weight and growing and sees food as fuel.

JollyAndBright · 03/10/2018 09:55

@SalemBlackCat

I’m not getting into a debate with you as you clearly have an issue with the subject of veganism and an unwavering belief in your uneducated opinion.

Come back to me when you have a medical degree and the actual knowledge to back up your opinion rather than just unrelated hearsay, myths and propaganda and we can really discuss the ‘dangers’ of a plant based diet vs. industrial livestock production and the dairy industry.

pennydrew · 03/10/2018 09:59

Neweternal neither of those anecdotal stories is a reflection on vegetarianism or veganism though. Your theory on lacking testosterone is based in nothing but belief, it’s not factual or scientific. But it is quite common for people to project their issues onto something else. At just 2% of the population, vegans certainly aren’t a group that dominates eating disorder statistics or hormonal disorders- if that is even what your brother has.

Neweternal · 03/10/2018 10:16

@pennydrew vegan men eat a lot of soya products, what does soya contain? Oestrogen! That's a fact.

Neweternal · 03/10/2018 10:20

This graph below is just for vegetarians imagine the graph for vegans?

To think vegetarian mums are selfish?
Charlie97 · 03/10/2018 10:21

@Neweternal

More speculative evidence indicates that soyfoods, because they contain isoflavones, help reduce risk of prostate cancer. Finally, there is no meaningful clinical evidence that suggests soy protein lowers serum testosterone levels or exerts any estrogen-like or feminizing effects in men.

Bluelady · 03/10/2018 10:23

My son is vegan, he never touches soya products.

OutPinked · 03/10/2018 10:26

She hasn’t fed him the correct nutrients. This can happen with a vegetarian, pescatarian, vegan or straight forward omnivore diet. Some omnivores only feed their kids freezer food or takeaways. Anaemia isn’t restricted to vegetarianism and it’s very easy to obtain the correct iron from a veggie diet. She just hasn’t done it right.

MilesHuntsWig · 03/10/2018 10:29

OP is either an utterly stupid, generalising, judgemental twat.... or a journo.... or very bored.

pennydrew · 03/10/2018 10:30

Neweternal Oh my goodness, you have an incredibly unscientific approach and it’s clear already you have almost zero knowledge regarding nutrition. Soy, and most plant foods but particularly beans, contain phytoestrogens, which does not = human estrogen. What actually messes with our natural estrogen levels, are xenoestrogens. Phytoestrogens actually bond to our estrogen receptor cells to block any unnatural rise from xenoestrogens. They are protective. Those are facts. You’re highlighting one part of a topic and misunderstanding how these things work in our body. There is simply no evidence that soy raises or negatively affects our hormones, indeed there is much research regarding soy and it’s protective effect on estrogen positive breast cancer. I have multiple hormone disorders ( genetic ) so have had some wonderfully insightful conversations with my endocrinologist, as well as reading up to date research on this from leading medical journals.

I’m afraid that anyone who shares ‘graphs’ from ‘psychology today’ after a quick google search really isn’t worth my time or knowledge on this subject, however I am concerned with you spreading fake news so I post for the benefit of others.

Neweternal · 03/10/2018 10:37

Charlie97 when I eat a diet heavy in soya I get two periods a months. Would you take that risk with a growing boy? No doubt the reduce inprostate cancer has something to do with lack of hormones in that area. A bit like the pill decreases certain types of cancer but not exactly great for your body as you run the risk of other problems.

pennydrew · 03/10/2018 10:37

Just FYI the study used by ‘psychology today’ included a vegetarian group where

  • 50% still ate oil fish
  • 12% still ate chicken
  • 5% still ate meat

You’re going to have to do better than that 😉

pennydrew · 03/10/2018 10:38

Neweternal By all means eat what you want, believe in whatever myths you want, but if you’re going to share anecdotal stories as if they’re ‘evidence’ prepare to be robustly challenged. You really have no clue what you’re talking about.

pennydrew · 03/10/2018 10:43

scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=american+dietetic+association+vegan&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&p=&u=%23p%3DzzWTVLCcsXgJ

Abstract :

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients. An evidence- based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals. The variability of dietary practices among vegetarians makes individual assessment of dietary adequacy essential. In addition to assessing dietary adequacy, food and nutrition professionals can also play key roles in educating vegetarians about sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and dietary modifications to meet their

Iron
The iron in plant foods is nonheme iron, which is sensitive to both inhibi- tors and enhancers of iron absorption. Inhibitors of iron absorption include phytates, calcium, and the polypheno- lics in tea, coffee, herb teas, and cocoa. Fiber only slightly inhibits iron absorp- tion (19). Some food preparation tech- niques such as soaking and sprouting beans, grains, and seeds, and the leav- ening of bread, can diminish phytate levels (20) and thereby enhance iron absorption (21,22). Other fermentation processes, such as those used to make miso and tempeh, may also improve iron bioavailability (23).
Vitamin C and other organic acids found in fruits and vegetables can substantially enhance iron absorp- tion and reduce the inhibitory effects of phytate and thereby improve iron status (24,25). Because of lower bio- availability of iron from a vegetarian diet, the recommended iron intakes for vegetarians are 1.8 times those of nonvegetarians (26).
Whereas many studies of iron ab-
sorption have been short term, there is evidence that adaptation to low in- takes takes place over the long term, and involves both increased absorp- tion and decreased losses (27,28). In- cidence of iron-deficiency anemia among vegetarians is similar to that of nonvegetarians (12,29). Although vegetarian adults have lower iron stores than nonvegetarians, their se- rum ferritin levels are usually within the normal range (29,30).

dangermouseisace · 03/10/2018 10:44

Neweternal vegetarian/vegan parents do not = eating disordered kids. It is possible to have a healthy attitude to food and be vegan. I had a severe eating disorder in childhood, and my family ate meat. Other patients ate meat. Turning vegan was actually part of my recovery as it gets away from society’s idea of good/bad food such as the current anti carb obsession, and the past low fat obsession.

seventhgonickname · 03/10/2018 10:46

New eternal there have been mass studies done on soya and it has no effect on the prostate or testosterone levels.Even a quick Google will tell you that much.

Belmo · 03/10/2018 10:49

I’m in my 30s and have never eaten meat and never suffered from iron deficiency, in spite of very heavy periods and two pregnancy’s. My kids are being brought up vegetarian, but know that they are allowed to eat meat when they’re older if they choose to.
Plenty of people feed their kids shitty diets.

Neweternal · 03/10/2018 10:49

@dangermouseisace With all disrespect you have went from one controlling diet to another. Swapped one obsession for another perfectly normal in certain personality types. This is about being in control. So not a completely healthy attitude towards food.

Neweternal · 03/10/2018 10:50

@dangermouseisace sorry I meant due respect!

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