Should a non academic child consider a grammar school?

[autismdisabilitymum]

Hello, I'm a newbie so excuse my lack of Mumsnet terms!
I'm in a quandary about grammar schools and my daughter. She is year 5 and I always believed she would go to our towns big comp. it's next door to the school my disabled sons go to and she's happy about going there. But....
ALL of her friends are going for the grammar school exams, our town is quite posh (we're not) so I'm not surprised but I didn't expect all of them. My daughter has dyscalculia (maths dyslexia) and I can't see her getting through the exams or even coping with the practise. She's not particularly academic, she loves drama and English. Some of the other mums are beginning to question why I'm not even considering it and I'm wondering if I'm wrong. My daughter just wants to be with her friends and that is her driving force.
Am I being too 'I went to a big comp and I'm ok' , can a non academic child get into & thrive in a grammar school?
Thanks ladies xxx

@BluthsFrozenBananas thanks for sharing your experience x that was exactly my thoughts, that the pressure would just be unfair, but have been questioning myself as if I shouldn't underestimate my daughter. At the end of the day I understand it grammars are for the most academically able, I don't understand why schools can't recommend. For the people who asked, I am in a fairly constant conversation with her junior school as she is receiving assistance for being 'below expectation' in maths, they told me they can't recommend anyway..

@Moonpie07 😳 Thankyou! X

For what it's worth I went to a grammar school and because it was so focused on academics the non-academic stuff was totally sidelined. There was literally no drama provision (no idea how ofsted let them get away with that!), music was taught in a glorified shed containing a few derelict keyboards and not much else, and sports was very much an afterthought.

It was also very clear who had had lots of extra help to get through the entrance exam and they had a miserable time of it.

Ignore other parents. I live in a grammar fever area. There's parents sticking their child in for tests who are having extra support groups at school as they are behind - It's madness

That's the thing isn't it, the system doesn't work as it stands at the moment. Grammar schools are state funded but state funded primary schools are not supposed to get involved in the process or if they do, its not done in a fair/meaningful/helpful way. Whereas prep schools will do whatever is necessary to get their pupils through the test, often from a very young age. Private tutoring is a racket in many areas, because much of the tutoring offered is of an abysmal standard and is not regulated at all.

The school can’t tell you what to do and can’t stop you applying if you want to as it’s a parents’ decision. That said at our school they will discuss it during y5 in parents’ evening. If they don’t really think your DC is suitable for grammar school they should say so if you ask directly.

Former grammar school teacher here.

No, OP. Don't do it. Grammars' are always highly academic - my old one had a 100% A*-C GCSE score. That probably isn't that unusual either.

I saw lads there who had clearly being hot-housed through and they did struggle. Much better for your child to be happy.

Are you in a county where all schools are selective or is there just the odd grammar school still in operation? I think that could impact on your decision too.

I would go and talk to the grammar schools. Get their feedback. They can you tell you if she would be likely to get in. And how they feel about a pupil who is good at English but not necessarily an academic all rounder.

If she could get in with a bit of maths coaching that extra tuition will actually last all the way to GCSE.

I went to a secondary school with no one from my primary (because we moved to a different catchment area). I settled in fine and made amazing friends. So even in the unlikely scenario that none of her friends go to the comp with her, I'm sure she'll be fine :)

My eldest goes to a grammar, and my middle child just did the test. The eldest is vvv academic, so grammar suits him in that way. However, he says EVERYTHING at school is competitive, sports, debating, there is nothing you can just do for the sake/fun of it!

My middle child is achieving beyond expected, but struggled with the practice. He wanted to do the test though, so he did. However, TBH I much prefer the local comps. They have a better attitude and seem more inclusive. It might be worthwhile visiting some (and the grammar) even though your daughter is only year 5. Open days are around now.

If your child is below expectation in Maths then there is no way she will pass the 11+. I work in Y6 and have known many extremely bright children who have not got into grammar school. It’s a massive competition and unless your child is working well above expectation there isn’t much hope.
How was her dyscalculia diagnosed?

In your situation Op, I wouldn’t do it.
Dd2 is at a Grammar School. She is very competitive as well as being academic , so she is coping well.
Dd1 took the 11 plus and passed (with loads of tutoring.)However, she decided that she didn’t want to attend the Grammar school. Tbh, I was relieved because I didn’t think that she would be able to cope with the highly competitive nature of the GS. She went to a faith school and managed to pass 10GCSEs with excellent grades.
She joined the sixth form at the Grammar School and is currently applying for a university place.

This is a tricky one because you don't want her resenting you for not letting her try. At the same time if her maths is that bad there really is no point. Her maths grade would need to be above average to be considered I would assume?

I would be diagnosed with discalculia now, I'm mildly dyslexic and I make the same mistakes with numbers as with letters.

But I managed to get into a top independent nonetheless. I'm never going to be a maths genius but with good, patient teaching I was fine.

I'd try her with some maths coaching, which would benefit her anyway, and see where you get to. If she doesn't reach grammar school standard, fine, you will still have improved her maths skills.

Dyscalculia is more to do with difficulty in understanding mathematical concepts rather than difficulties reading or writing numbers.

I went to a super selective grammar school as a child. I have also taught in both super selective grammars and those in 11+ areas who take a wider intake. My own DS1 has just sat the 11+ for a super selective.

Honestly OP - don’t do it. It doesn’t matter what other parents are doing. You know your child, you will know what suits her best. With the best will in the world, if she is achieving below age related expectations in Maths then she is extremely unlikely to pass the 11+ anyway. You don’t have to keep up with anyone else, you just have to find the right fit for her. Kids round here are tutored to death for the exam and it’s just so depressing, such hard work - and as a previous poster said, just a brutal thing to put a 10 year old through, let alone one that is unlikely to pass.

And realistically - the majority of her friends won’t pass either and will be joining her at the local comp!

OP it doesn't sound as if your daughter would get in or thrive at a grammar school. Don't get sucked into the 11+ madness, perhaps she could do drama classes instead?

Let her take the exam. I have dyscalculia but easily passed the 11+ and was very young for my year. I loved English & drama and just needed extra GCSE maths tuition later on.

In response to the comment about drugs in the comprehensive schools, the drugs problem in my area is far worse in the grammars and private schools, because the kids there have more money. (I know the head of a local grammar socially and this is their view.) Dealers know this, and they also know that provided they aren't deaing in the school grounds there is nothing the school can do to stop them. A friend's ds became hooked on heroin while at school. It has pretty much destroyed his life (he's mid 30s now and an addict).

Just something to think about.

No, Grammar schools are for highly academic children. You would!d be setting her up to fail.

I imagine your daughter would be totally out of her depth in Grammar school, and would!d really struggle.

My daughter is in Yr 5 and she is clever but I can clearly see she is inspired and passionate about art and music more than anything else. She is an anxious child and is happiest when there isn’t a great deal of pressure on her and she can create and use her imagination. I was a high achiever at school academically but I am specifically looking for a school for her that will nurture her creativity. All I want is for her to be happy and enjoy school really. I feel she will find her niche in a creative industry following school and I don’t want to push her to get lots of high grades as it will stress her out unnecessarily. Luckily our local comp is v good and has excellent opportunities for the arts so I want her to go there. I also thought about tutoring etc to see if I could get her into a selective school but have decided against it.

I would go see it with her and talk to the school and then decide see what support they offer etc, if she wants to take the tests then let her (wise to do some practise ones tho) but explain a test is just that day your proud of her regardless.
My parents let me and I ended up getting in I'm dyslexic. It actually did me a lot of good to be around academic pupils I improved my English no end, started around about a D/E in year 8 and got an A and A* in GCSEs in it.

I used to work in a primary school with a grammar nearby. Parents were arranging tutors from year 3 to prep them for the 11+, and I still only knew a handful of children pass it. Some incredibly bright children didn’t pass. It’s more than just maths and literacy skills, and unfortunately if your DD struggles with maths in class, I’m not sure how strong her chances are.

I’m conflicted because part of me thinks there’s no harm in trying it so at least she doesn’t feel like she’s not had the opportunity. But how would she handle it if she doesn’t pass?

It sounds like your daughter could thrive in an environment where she is given more creative opportunities for drama, English and the like. I’m not sure she’d get as much of that in a grammar school.

From your posts, you sound like a brilliantly supportive mum so I’m sure she’ll be fine in the comp with your backing.