To confiscate DM's bank card

[ARainbowsMum]

I know it sounds awful, but I'm at the end of my tether with her drinking and coming to harm and I want to stage an intervention.

DM who's in her 60's is an alcoholic binge drinker, often coming to harm in the process. In the past she has fallen over outside and cracked her head open resulting in head scans at the hospital, she has set fire to her clothes and ended up with burns after drunkenly trying to light a cigarette. She has been found passed out in puddles in the street near her over 50's accommodation. I've lost count of the amount of black eyes, grazes, cuts and bruise's she's had.

She's recently taken out a budgeting loan with the DWP which in itself is a cheek but means she has more money than usual, she's been pissing it up the wall on booze and nobody can get a hold of her because when she does this she turns her phone off and goes AWOL.

I'm currently pregnant and have a young DS, the stress of her behavior is making my life a living hell to the point where I feel as though I'm becoming depressed.

I've tried to "leave her to it" but lose sleep over the fact she's not safe and not looking after herself. I feel responsible for her, not because of the alcohol but because she does have learning difficulties as well.

I've spoken to another relative about going to her place to check on her and taking her card and keeping it at my place, meaning she doesn't have access to funds which she can splash on booze, I'd happily do her shopping for her and make sure she has food etc.

We've tried counselling. The doctors. AA meetings. Nothing has worked.

Aibu to do this? I can't sit by and watch her kill herself anymore.

Forcing someone onto a cold turkey without medical intervention can be extremely dangerous

Good point, and one I was going to follow up with, but she almost certainly has access to alcohol in various ways and can always ask for the bank card back.

This is another reason to start with a doctor's appointment. There are medications that can ease the withdrawal and lessen the cravings. She might also accept an admittance to hospital if the doctor insists on it.

@easyandy101 I know what you're saying but mum isn't physically dependent at this stage, she can and does go up to a week with no alcohol when she's got no money and she doesn't suffer from DT's. Thank god. When she has no money is when we see her the most as she'll spend days at her sisters absolutely fine or come round mine for lunch several days in a row and be OK.

I know the tremors etc can be life threatening and if she had those symptoms I absolutely wouldn't be trying to make her go abstinent

We've made her a doctors appointment before and they ordered blood tests etc to see whether binging has done any harm (would that even show through a blood test as I thought she'd need specific tests on her liver) anyhow apparently she's fine

The doctor wasn't keen on prescribing anything medication wise and told her to get a hobby.

A standard blood chemistry test will evaluate liver enzymes that show if she's got hepatic damage.

How long ago was the doctors appointment, and was the doctor aware of the pattern of self injury?

The doctors appointment was earlier this year in March. I was with her on the day as was her sister and we explained in detail about the binges and the injuries she's sustained when in drink, I asked about medication and the doctor said they wouldn't be looking to prescribe anything "at this stage" and suggested she take up a hobby to keep herself busy.

She seemed motivated to stop back then and had become convinced (as did we) that she'd be given something which would help her.

When the blood tests came back as normal and the doctor wasn't prepared to put her on any tablets/whatever for alcohol abuse that was like a green light for her to carry on.

She has been to see a counsellor which we paid for privately, that was a waste of time as she said he just kept "repeating himself" so she refused to go back.

She's been to AA and refused to return there too.

It's a progressive disease. It will get worse over time.

Op please be careful about trusting that you're mum isn't physically dependent on alcohol, just because she hasn't been before doesn't mean she isn't now. Alcohol withdrawal can be fatal. Also the blood test results don't mean much, my mum died indirectly from alcohol abuse and had clear blood test results a few weeks before she died, not sure how that worked as her liver definitely wasnt fine!

Its a really hard position to be in and I feel for you.

@Threadastaire I'm very sorry for your loss I can see myself in your position in the not so distant future and that terrifies me.

I've taken on board about the withdrawals, its true that I can't possibly know for sure that she hasn't developed them now.

She has two cans of alcohol at her place for today, tomorrow when she is sober I'm going to make her tea and broach the subject of another doctors visit and be more insistent this time that she needs help to stop

MissConduct I never knew that about you! PSB here!

Hi PSB I was just about to email you. I only tend to mention it on threads where my insights about it might be helpful.

OP, request the doctor order a test that included gamma–glutamyltransferase (GGT) levels. I've pm'd you by the way.

All you can do is keep trying, it's tough though and you have to look after yourself too. Are you aware of any barriers that might be stopping her reducing? Eg anxiety, sickness, boredom? Just that she might need some other things to go for as well as what her Gp says.
The other thing I'd suggest if you're in a position to do so is try and ensure she eats enough, the physical effects of booze on older women is pretty brutal, can really affect muscle retention and that potentially has lots of knock on effects for physical health/frailty.

Sadly my mum had massive issues around anxiety and shame, privacy etc which meant she didn't let anyone in to help. We mitigated the effects a little by buying her lower strength alcohol (sounds daft I know to buy booze but it was better than her doing an online shop for high strength stuff) and getting her out dog walking with a friend as she liked the company and fresh air. That and making sure she had easy to eat food in to keep her weight up. It didn't prevent what was fairly inevitable for her (she combined heavy drinking with heavy smoking so that's always going to catch up with someone) but it probably slowed things down and gave her a bit more time.

The 'child like ' thing really struck a chord with me, my mum was always socially/emotionally immature, it wasn't until a few years ago though that I realised that over the years her cognition was probably affected by the boozing too. It was only in the last 3 years she drank heavily but before then was what I call a working class baby boomer drinker - social life revolved around the local pub, hard day = drink to wind down, good day =drink to celebrate etc. I think it made her more childish in some ways, affected her memory a bit etc. At the time I thought it was down to aging but I'v realised that her friends are still much sharper than she was.

If you are on Facebook then please check out the Coaisathing page (COA = children of alcoholics), there is a private FB support group that you can be added to. We are all in the same boat over there and it's a very understanding place.

I really think given your updates that you have to focus on getting support for yourself through Al-Anon or similar and doing the work to detach with love, set boundaries and learn to take care of your own wellbeing. I had two alcoholics in my life - my H and my mum. My H died earlier this year after spiralling very rapidly over the course of a year. He did rehab twice but ultimately he wan't ready to stop and address his reasons for drinking. My mum started drinking when my dad developed dementia, and got worse after he died. She's 78 now and the pattern is the same - falls, hospitalisations, dangerous behaviour. She drives her neighbours insane and social services are involved, but she refuses to accept help. She's smart enough to be sober when people come to assess her so passes any assessments with flying colours - and then goes back to her old ways. My Dsis and I have accepted we are powerless and so we have stepped back. We did insist on a financial POA - not to stop her spending, but to ensure her essential bills are paid for her. She allowed this but will not allow anything else. We also involved the police when we found out she was driving after losing her license, and arranged for her car to be impounded - she was very angry about that for a long time, but Dsis and I can't feel bad about it - it was necessary.

Apart from that from a purely emotion POV we are no contact with her. We have shallow chats on the phone, but that's it (she is in a different country from us). We have no option but for it to be this way. One day she will have the drunken fall that kills her and we are powerless to prevent it. We both live with that every day. It's hard but there isn't another way. Good luck. Look after yourself and your baby. Forget about saving your mum - you can't.

I know how awful it is to love an alcoholic and feel powerless to protect them from themsleves. Taking her bank card won't help, she'll just cancel it and get another. Or go into the bank for cash. Or borrow it from someone. Or sell/pawn stuff.
Sadly there is nothing you can do to make her stop, so you have to protect yourself from being hurt further by her behaviour by distancing yourself, not easy I know.
Remember, you didn't cause this, you cannot control it and you can't cure it

I know someone in a similar position to you with her Dad. They agreed she would have his bank card and do his shopping. He gets enough cash each day to buy a certain amount of alcohol (I think it’s £10-20). She was also advised not to make him go cold turkey. This is working for now but he is deteriorating, his memory is poor (he walks to the shops 5 minutes away and forgets where he lives) and won’t last much longer.

I agree you definitely need social support involved. This is a form of self-neglect and you can’t keep supporting her much longer in this manner.

- it must be horrible to watch.

Thank you all so much for your replies, my heart goes out to everybody else here who's lives have been blighted by alcohol be it a parent or somebody else.

I think something most of us will recognize is the blind hope that if we "just do this" then maybe it'll help, maybe it'll spark a change. Me having her bank card is only the latest in a long list of desperate measures I've resorted to as its become apparent that she's headed down a slippery slope, I know in reality its not going to change a thing but would at least for today ensure she doesn't drink herself into a coma. When I see her tomorrow I'm going to make her another doctors appointment and ask about the (GTT?) tests suggested.

I've taken down the number for adult social services and I'm going to contact them and request an assessment tomorrow.

I'm also going to focus on myself more, I've found the place that holds our local Al-anon meetings every Tuesday so I'm going to aim to go along this week if I can get a sitter for DS.

I'll join the Facebook page mentioned, it helps a lot to know I'm not alone and while I wouldn't wish this position on anybody I'm glad there are hubs where we can come together and support one another.

I really appreciate all the feedback and support I've received here, thank you all you're lovely

If she doesn't have access to cash she may engage in sexual activity to get drink.

Such a hard situation. I had the same thing with my dad. As horrible as it was in the end I had to just step back and realise that I couldn't do anything. Only he could. In the end he died as a result of his alcoholism but I know there was nothing I could have done. You have to protect yourself and your own feelings. I'm sorry you are going through this.

OP, the NHS does a standard liver function blood test:

www.labtestsonline.org.uk/tests/liver-function-tests

The test for GGT levels is included in that panel, so I'd just request the liver function test.

@RapunzelsRealMom she can just call the bank and say she has lost it and have a new one sent out?

I've made a note of what tests to ask for thank you :-)

RE my mother's card, its a post office card and not an actual bank. In the past when she's lost one (several times) my aunt calls the card replacement service for her and takes down the long code over the phone, then arranges the replacement in branch where mum has to take the code and ID. Mum isn't aware she can go into the post office and withdraw money without the card (not sure if she even could?) but if so she isn't aware of that.

She doesn't make these calls for herself, she's dependent on my aunt to do it for her, and under these circumstances my aunt won't do it because she too is concerned about mums lack of money management and is tired of being depended on when she wastes all of her money and then relies on us for necessities.

For now she's happy for me to keep the card and oversee her spends to make sure she doesn't leave herself skint by wasting the contents of the account on alcohol, whether that will remain the case in the coming days I don't know.

Obviously she will have access to everything she needs to buy, she just won't be able to splurge on booze.

Its far from ideal and I'm aware I won't be able to keep it forever but it gives me peace of mind to an extent at the moment knowing she's not going to drink herself stupid whilst she has extra funds.

I really don't think she'd end up having sex in return for alcohol, as far as I'm aware there aren't undesirable men in any of her social circles.

I took the bank card from my mother. It worked. Although she called the police once, but police told her to file a complaint, and she stepped back. She seems to refrain from doing official complaints, probably because she feels afraid of the uncertainty that would follow this. She is by and large satisfied with my caretaking, and she does not want to risk overtoppling the status quo. I think taking the bank can be effective among certain circumstances, especially if trust could be built up. Legality? I must laugh. Our country is on the verge of collapse of the social net due to state capture, one-party system and bleeding out of social institutions,