To think that if you behave like a twat and then need rescuing, you should be charged for it.

[Bearbehind]

Just watched an episode of 'Saving lives at seas' I'd recorded.

Some twat decided it would be 'an adventure' to set out in a life raft, live it rough for a while, then get washed back in to shore by the tide.

I know it's not practical, but is it just me that thinks these stupid fuckers should have to pay for their actions.

It is easy for usually sensible people to sometimes do stupid things. I had to be rescued from a beach that had been cut off by the tide. I'd walked there many times, just mistimed it and was too busy talking with a friend to notice. The RNLI came out before we'd even realised as someone had seen us walking out there. I always donate if see a collection and would be happy to do some voluntary work as a penance.

Emergency services shouldn't be made to discriminate in the way you suggest; it's not practical and it would be too ambiguous.

Plus, in most situations where people require emergency services and health treatment there will be some level of personal responsibility. for example, type 2 diabetics, skin cancer sufferers who have used sun beds etc etc.

Furthermore, poor people who make stupid decisions might be left unaided whereas rich people who do the same would receive help- that's blatant discrimination.

So imo yabu.

Also, putting to sea in rickety boats is just what humans do and have done throughout history and prehistory. How do you think we have come to occupy so many continents and islands all around the world? This chap was probably obeying the programming of his genes. Yes, he should engage his higher reasoning powers but sometimes instinct kicks in and you are left wondering why you did something stupid.

@Jonty Brilliant idea! I'd like to withdraw my previous statement and go with Jonty's idea instead.

If you were running for Prime Minister, I'd vote for you.

Ive got it! What if, instead of getting charged, if you get rescued you have to do a certain number of hours volunteer work for the rescue service that helped you? Doesn’t have to be the dangerous stuff, could be washing kit or making tea, but it would be a repayment for service that nearly everyone could do, and should not begrudge when they’ve been saved

This ^

I think there are some wildly false analogies being drawn here. Smoking/overeating are irrelevant. Responsible motorcyclists wear proper gear and are supremely aware of and alert to the dangers they face. Same goes for climbers. OP was addressing rescues of irresponsible people who blithely take serious risks whilst assuming, at least subconsciously, 'oh well, if I get into trouble someone will get me out of it'. And for fecks sake if genes enter it at all they do only inasmuch as genes might influence intelligence.

What angers me most about these idiots is that rescuers' own lives can be put at risk in saving them. Rescuers die sometimes in the course of their work (often entirely voluntary)a stumble on a mountain in the fog, a swamped lifeboat in a stormand potentially other people in need of rescue could die from diversion of units to help these idiots.

Jonty's idea is excellent, but I tend to think the penalty should be paid only by those who abuse the rescue services by acting the fool.

The series itself illustrates the difference between disquieted's list of accidents and idiots. An earlier episode had a lady whose kayak capsized on a day with bad weather conditions. To someone who has no interest whatsoever in water sports she may seem an idiot. However, she was dressed appropriately, had a radio on which she made a mayday call (although it broke up) and had a back up phone in a waterproof bag on which she also called 999. She also took appropriate action to stay with her boat and shout to attract attention. All of which suggests to me that she was experienced but had an accident (and I would guess may have donated later as I believe people do - especially if they continue with watersports).

The incident the op referred to the guy seemed to believe that the tide would just take him out a short distance and then bring him back in and clearly didn't know about using flares until directed. Oh and didn't seem to realise how dangerous the Channel shipping lanes are. He showed a complete lack of understanding about tides or boats and, unlike walkers who get caught when the tide comes in quicker or further than expected), he deliberately bout himself into (well on to) the water. He was an idiot.

That said, I wouldn't want to see people afraid to call for help because they are worried about getting charged. I think you would risk cut off walkers trying to climb up cliffs for example rather than calling which is more risky. They also repeatedly say that they want to be called out for animals in the water (which some may baulk at the cost of) because that is better than someone going into the sea themselves to attempt a rescue.

That said I hope the guy got an absolute bollocking off them. There was an incident in an earlier episode where a guy jumped down a cliff for a date and then jumped into the lifeboat without listening to instructions - it was strongly implied that 'words were said' to him back at the station.

I believe the RNLI can eventually step back a bit - I seem to remember a story of a man trying to sail round the coast of England using a road atlas in a useless boat. I think after something like the 3rd rescue, he was told that they may not come out to him again (somehow I doubt they would have carried out the threat as people who do water activities just don't refuse aid - it's just not done because one day you may be the one in need of aid - but someone was prepared to at least threaten it).

Smoking/overeating are irrelevant. er.....

It is estimated that the NHS spent £6.1 billion on overweight and obesity-related ill-health in 2014 to 2015.

2.6billionwas the total estimated smoking-related cost to the NHS in 2015

www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-matters-obesity-and-the-food-environment/health-matters-obesity-and-the-food-environment--2

www.gov.uk/government/publications/cost-of-smoking-to-the-nhs-in-england-2015/cost-of-smoking-to-the-nhs-in-england-2015

In principle yes, but where you would draw the line and how you would enforce it, more difficult.

Across England, fire and rescue services attended 851 bariatric assistance cases in 2016-17, a 98% increase on five years previously

The Maritime and Coastguard Rescue team spent

I think it would be fair to be given an information pack about the service and how it is funded wther they ask for it or not and automatically being added to the mailing list for the Christmas appeal.

I realise it would never happen because it's too difficult to administer but I wish I could.

The massive difference between search and rescue costs and the cost of fighting smoking and obesity illnesses is the people doing the latter are not putting their own lives at risk because of other people's stupid decisions.

Thank god none of you have the power to do anything about this.

I AGREE op. Although I look at it from a different angle. I think we need to start charging the idiots who end up in a fight after the pubs close that then take officers off the street to deal with them.

Instead of a measly slap on the wrist for drunk and disorderly start charging them for what they've used. E.g 2x coppers, ride to station, overnight stay, paperwork cost £1000. Charge them that.
Then put the money BACK into the police force.

I am volunteer RNLI crew (namechanged!) on one of the big boats. As a pp mentioned, quite a lot of our casualties will give a donation after a rescue. Personally, I would not want people to be charged for a rescue on the off chance that it would put someone off calling the Coastguard. A lot of work is going on to prevent coastal drowning at the moment. I help run lifejacket clinics (free checks) and give safety advice; including personal safety equipment that is available encouraging the use of personal locator beacons etc.

I have never given a casualty 'a bollocking' even if they have put themselves in danger. A chat about safety and future considerations, yes. Again, we don't want someone put off calling for help in the future. We are well aware that every time the boat launches we could be in danger, but we still go out if our pagers go off, regardless of time of day or weather conditions.

As to the cost of running the RNLI; we are reliant entirely on public donations. The cost is huge. To train me and to keep me in decent kit costs £3000 a year approximately. The boats have to be kept in tip top condition and we have wages for full time staff to consider. The training college in Poole has world class facilities to ensure we are all trained for any situation.

Also, people who go for cosmetic surgery abroad, it all goes wrong, come home and the NHS are left to pick up the pieces.

Something I don't understand about this is that I've more than once heard (from stories online or on TV) of NHS doctors refusing to pick up the pieces after cosmetic/optional treatment has gone wrong, and telling the person to sort it out with whoever treated them. (It's irrelevant whether the non-NHS treatment was abroad or not.) Is there some rule that allows them to do this?

I could be wrong, as I can't remember specific cases, but I think the issues were not just bad outcomes, but actual complications that required medical treatment.

Why is a complication from a dodgy private cosmetic surgeon less worthy of NHS treatment than the say the consequences of getting drunk and starting a fight? (If it is.)

I can see that the private doctor could probably be held financially responsible for fixing what they broke, but it's not a general principle of the NHS that they won't fix someone just because someone else can in theory be held financially responsible for fixing them. (I know there's an exception where NHS does get money from car accidents. And obviously they can refuse to treat people who aren't eligible for NHS.)

Actually car accidents are not an exception, because the NHS doesn't refuse to treat them.

Thank god none of you have the power to do anything about this.

Yes. It's sad how vile some humans can be.

It’s sad how vile some humans can be

How is it ‘vile’ to think there should be repercussions for people who’s idiotic behaviour puts other people’s lives at risk?

My dad needed to be rescued by the RNLI which was partly his fault - nothing totally stupid, just hadn't noticed his fuel gauge was broken... he wrote to them and asked how much it cost and donated double. Also bought all the crew a bacon sandwich when they got back
It's a tricky one but I think as a minimum the truly stupid ones should be advised of how much it's all cost.

Mountain search and rescue is mostly carried out by volunteers. Cavers and potholers are rescued by other cavers and potholers. (Actually, there are relatively few cave rescues - indeed, the cave rescue organisations spend a good proportion of their time rescuing sheep and dogs).

There are very few completely reckless idiots - that's why they make the news. There are rather more people who learn the hard way of the importance of having suitable clothing, navigation aids etc. And many more people who have made mistakes and learnt from them without having to call on rescue services, learning confidence and self reliance on the way. If we deter people from attempting activities because of the cost to them if they're deemed to have got it wrong, then we lose out as a society.

Thing is, one person's stupid act is another's unfortunate accident, where do you draw the line? Who would be the arbiter?

The NHS would be snarled up in civil court cases and litigation trying to 'prove' someone acted irresponsibly and would probably cost much more in legal fees, enforcement and staff hours in chasing the money than any that was likely to be recovered.

Threads like this are so stupid. What exactly is the point in sending someone an invoice for £200k for their sea rescue? To make you feel like something is being done?

My dad needed to be rescued by the RNLI which was partly his fault - nothing totally stupid, just hadn't noticed his fuel gauge was broken... He didn't deliberately set out to be idiotic, though, did he? I don't think there's many people who set out thinking "this is a bloody stupid thing to do, but who cares, because I'll get rescued for free". If we start charging people, then people will start needing insurance to do anything remotely in the outdoors in order to pay the rescue fee when someone deems they have been "stupid". Then outdoor activity will be confined to the better off in society, and the already deprived will be further deprived and face an even bigger challenge to remain fit and healthy.

You’re not entitled to nhs treatment for bad plastic surgery abroad - apart from obviously treating an immediate acute medical issues arising from it like needing antibiotics