To think wtaf is happening in our work place.

[Deadbudgie]

I work in a large firm. It has many different interest groups, Muslim soc, Christian soc, women’s network, mental health group, disability group, lgbt group, carers group, scuba diving soc.. the list goes on. Now mostly,unless you’re part of a group you don’t really notice their existence, you might get invited via a firm wide email to celebrate eid with a samosa by the Muslim society, told about talks by mental health group, told about a city carol concert by Christian soc etc. But the leader of the lgbt group is on a mission to either out everyone or make sure they are a visible straight supporter. If you’re in his team and don’t clear the decks for pride you might as well hand in your resignation, everyone has been given rainbow lanyards to wear security passes on. Rainbow flags adorn every notice board. Now I really don’t care who any of my colleagues are in a relationship with, the Christian soc manages to go about it’s business without insisting everyone attaches a crucifix to their lanyard, no sign of mental health symbols either (and I suspect this has a wider relevance to the employee population. Aibu to think all this forced showing of support has no place in the work place and if you tried it with anything else you would be sacked!

I'm going to preface this by saying I'm bi - out and proud. I also love the rianbiw and if I were offered a rainbow lanyard would wear it with pride.

However, I think a company (or a manager within a company) making people wear a rainbow lanyard is a different kettle of fish. They should be offered, but I'd rather know people are wearing it because they want to. Not because they'd been told they had to.

Ever heard of the word 'COERCION'?

Ever heard of the word ‘NO’?

How is the OP being goady? She’s the one being goaded. YANBU OP.

In the current climate, certainly, people who follow either the Muslim or the Jewish religion would have a point if they said they felt scared to display or talk about their beliefs at work,. How would you all feel if your employers, in the name of diversity and inclusivity, demanded that all employees wear a hijab one week and a star of David the next? Making a workplace a happy, inclusive and bully-free one is not about ordering staff to wear or display tokens and all the tokenery is sometimes an indication of a workplace where, actually, subtle bigotry and bullying are a major problem, but when a staff member complains that they are being picked on or undermined because of prejudice, management point to all the pretty symbols and vapid slogans about 'love' and say That Can't Possibly Happen Here, stop playing the [minority] card...l

@Mummyoflittledragon

Not quite. In Catholicism, Mother Mary has always been held in the highest regard. We don't worship her but we venerate her as the highest Saint.

Goodness!

How ever does anyone get any work done at your place? It sounds like there wouldn't be much time for work left

I have seen this in a previous workplace - lots of networks for various groups but the LGBT was far more heavily pushed and sometimes stuff would just appear on desks (I recall a lanyard, a coaster and something else).

I get the LGBT posters who feel that their colleagues wearing, say, a rainbow lanyard shows that they're safe/welcoming and they can be open with them. But surely that's not actually the case if they're not properly voluntary?

Like a PP I would feel uncomfortable with this at the moment due to the issues around transgenderism and women's rights too; LGB and T are very firmly linked in every workplace I've been in recently and that does present a challenge for me as I don't feel I can support the way many of the campaigning organisations are behaving towards women right now.

I know this sounds really cynical, but part of the reason organisations demonstrate support for minority groups is to boost their score as an inclusive employer. This seems to be particularly true in the public sector. We have networks for LGBT, BAME and disability, which is great. But senior managements real interest in LGBT is their Stonewall application and being a top 100 Stonewall employer.

As long as you don't want to have sex with children I don't care who you want to have sex with, maybe its because of my age but I find it odd we have have to have club to let people know we're OK with them being gay, lesbian, bi or whatever!

Live & let live

I'd feel uncomfortable. If the womyn's symbol or the labyris were displaced the same way (as if) then there would be howls from all directions.

I do think work places are important for tackling discrimination, reducing stigma and raising awareness. So flags on notice boards and posters etc, training etc are all good. I’m not sure it’s quite the same for a Christian group, they are not stigmatized as far as I’m aware or had to fight for acceptance.

So it wouldn’t bother me at all.

This happens in my workplace too.

I think it is a good thing.

In the past, colleagues may have been biased against anyone who didn't fit their idea of 'normal', whether consciously or unconsciously. These events help normalise differences and should help reduce bias which has to be a good thing.

I'm involved in a group promoting part time working. Part time workers are often assumed to be working mums who don't want any responsibility or further career progression. I want to challenge that bias.

Knowing more now about the T part of LGBT (thanks to mumsnet) I also now feel slightly uncomfortable about my rainbow lanyard which I requested in the belief I was being supportive. My employer is a flagship supporter of LGBT rights with an active network. There was an enormous Rainbow Flag behind a foyer stand this week which was supposed to be about general inclusion, including disabled people, faith groups and women.

So everyone should pretend to be straight at work because it makes you more comfortable?
I can't speak for OP but personally I couldn't care less if someone is straight or not. I've often assumed people are gay who turn out to not be, but I can't imagine caring one way or another unless I'm planning on sleeping with them.
I am very against corporate pressure to nail any sort of colours to your mast. What individuals beleive is personal until they make it otherwise and should not be mandated from above ffs.

Part time workers are often assumed to be working mums who don't want any responsibility or further career progression. I want to challenge that bias.

This is definitely the case at my flagship LGBT rights employer... Well done for setting up a group. I wish I had the energy!

@WhatisFreddoingnow
Is Mary not venerated as a virgin and bringer of the miracle and mother of the messiah? Despite what she is today, I think her presence was very much also used throughout the ages to keep women under control as no woman could ever match up to her and not a real woman. As you say venerated.

Going back to early texts the bible states the apostles went 2 by 2 - one female one male - and the exact same phrase is used for the animals going in the ark. This makes sense as society was largely segregated and both sexes had equal standing so females would have preached to females and not males to females as it would have been inappropriate perhaps scandalous. Once the Romans got involved, women were simply whitewashed out. It took a few centuries but it’s been that way for over a millennia.

No one should be forced or pressured into coming out if they are not heterosexual, and so if the OP is describing things accurately, the LGBT group leader is acting improperly in my view.

I agree with OP.

LGB rights are something that the vast vast majority of working age people are supportive of, including me. But just because I agree with the purpose of the campaign, doesn’t mean I think there should be a culture where group think is encouraged and anyone who doesn’t publically comply is disadvantaged.

Eg in a previous place I worked, there was a similar manager who was really pushing Operation Christmas Child. I have objections to that scheme, so I really didn’t appreciate the constant demands to contribute and the implication that I was a stingy bastard when I didn’t.

"...a rainbow lanyard is a statement of not being homophobic..."

Given that another poster, @peachgreen, has said that some LGBTQ people don't want straight supporters to co-opt the rainbow symbol, it clearly isn't as simple as your statement suggests, @AnoukSpirit.

I may be wrong, but my impression from @Deadbudgie's OP is that she has no objection to any groupmeeting/organising/raising awareness/support within her work place - what she finds disquieting is the way in which this particular group is going about things.

She mentioned that the team members of the LGBTQ group's leader pretty much feel they MUST 'clear the decks for Pride' or they might as well hand in their resignation - no organisation should be forcing co-workers to support anything.

My impression of the OP is that she would be equally unhappy if any of the groups/societies at her workplace behaved in this coercive/overbearing manner.

Surely any group wants people to want to support them and espouse their rights, and making people feel they are being forced to demonstrate their support is going to be counter productive.

The reason rainbow lanyards are so popular is that LGBT rights are really uncontroversial now in most settings.

None of these organisation would have lanyards for women's rights or anti-poverty or anything remotely controversial, because then it might prompt people to ask awkward questions like, 'Why are there no women in senior management?' or 'Why does this company arrange it's finances to pay the minimum tax possible?'.

Better to make the focus LGBT rights which doesn't actually require anyone to do anything much and which 99% of the employees already agree with anyway.

Sometimes (no, they do), when groups get together they conflate the importance of issues that to others outside of the group are really non issues.

They all get whipped up into a frenzy and the answer here appears to be hard hitting marketing strategy.

Eg. Here is the what I think :
No one cares who you are partnered with.
No one cares if you are a Christian, Muslim, Jehovas Witness etc
Anyone who is - will not have their mind changed by wearing a virtue signal. They will have it changed through meaningful relationships.

People are essentially bothered mainly about themselves and what they have got to do in a day.

If most employers actually enforced their disciplinary and bullying policies in line with the Equality Act there would be little need for rainbow lanyards etc.

They hide behind this flag-waving whilst not actually doing the tricky (and expensive) bit of investigating and disciplining people who make their workplaces unpleasant places to be for LGBT staff.

People are essentially bothered mainly about themselves and what they have got to do in a day.

For LGBT people, this can often involve having to navigate interactions with 'old school' people who are friendly and make small talk and where, in the absence of any evidence to assist, the LGBT person must do a mental risk assessment of whether it's a good idea to be honest and open about their life with that colleague/boss or whether they should dodge any questions and risk looking standoffish. Down the line, this can result in the colleague assuming they're straight and adding to the awkwardness all round.

It's great that so many of you on MN, an anonymous forum, are so inclusive, but no-one knows who you are IRL and LGBT people still face prejudices all the time in general life - why would they risk coming out to you to the detriment of their career?

I've worked with homophobic colleagues. It's shit, so if I think there's a risk of my being out being problematic, I'm likely not to come out. Which is just as stressful, as you have to keep a mental log of who knows what. So just as shit.

And it is distracting in that context when you have to exchange pleasantries with someone in order to get on and do your job.

It's great that so many of you on MN, an anonymous forum, are so inclusive, but no-one knows who you are IRL and LGBT people still face prejudices all the time in general life - why would they risk coming out to you to the detriment of their career

Look, I get this, but I can't help coming out as a woman to the detriment of my career AND FWIW some of the most misogynist and discriminatory colleagues have been gay or 'T' men.

So true YetAnotherSpartacus. And whilst I can't help being out as a female, I find I have to be very careful about coming out as feminist (And I don't even mean GC or radfem, just plain old fem) as that's enough to cause some major issues.