to think it might be best not to book a holiday in the EU?

[InTheRoseGarden]

I'm planning next year's summer holiday and as I'm reaching the point of booking things I'm hesitating because of the Brexit situation. Am I right in thinking that if there's no deal it could be a complete ball ache? I really don't want a load of stress in having to sort extra things out ahead of the holiday - especially if everyone else with a European holiday is doing it too.

It's De Efteling, by the way.

Bugger off with your booking uk holidays you lot.... that's my usual and I don't want every bloody place mobbed out. Hhm.... maybe I should risk going to France as it'll be empty.

The difficulty with any sort of planning is the brinkmanship that is being played out. If we knew by, say, December that the UK/EU were unable to negotiate a withdrawal agreement and there definitely would not be one in place by March 29th then there may well just about be time to cobble together some preparations for emergency multilateral deals over flights etc and visa/E-travel arrangements that could become "live" on 30th March. Trouble is, the government are totally relying on being able to take things up to the wire and come up with some 11th hour agreement.

Davis Davies was saying a year or more ago that it would likely be a last-minute arrangement. If this doesn't work out, then there is literally nothing in place so I would expect at least a few weeks of major disruption to travel both to the EU and other countries that we have travel/aviation agreements with through our EU membership.

DH is going to Europe the week after Brexit, I did say there might be queues, its only by ferry and train though. Easter hols are just afterwards and we never go in school holidays but Easter will be a good test of how it all works or doesn't.

We will probably go away in October/November so don't need to book yet and it should have settled by then.

Some EU civil servants have also said that its possible that UK travellers will have to purchase a visa, likely a £52 Schengen visa, unless a deal is negotiated

Not possible but very likely. Interesting it costs £52, so over £200 for a family of four - how long do they last? However, I think you have to go to an embassy in person to get one, so the costs would be far greater if you are not in or near London (or a city with a consulate).

For those who blithely assume that it will somehow get sorted,
have a read of the "Brexit Unknowns" paper here
researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8408
Published by the Chicken Licken brigade at the Library of the Westminster Parliament

I have absolutely no intention of booking ANYTHING outside the UK after 29th March until I have seen the agreement.

If it looks like a pain in the arse to go abroad for holiday we will just stay here and go off in our caravan. Not really too bothered but won't go if there will be difficulties. DH's trip in April is a one of his club events so not really a holiday and not very expensive if he loses any money and up to him if he goes.

IATA (International Air Transport Association) Director General press release 25th September 2018.
www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2018-09-25-01.aspx
While we still hope for a comprehensive EU-UK deal, an assumption that it will be “all right on the night” is far too risky to accept.
No way am I booking any holiday abroad after March. Not with the clowns we have in charge of negotiotiations.

I certainly wouldn't! We're staying in UK next year. As for driving in the EU I'm not sure if UK driving licences will be valid in EU countries post Brexit. Best to look at the Gov website technical notices.

lol don’t be silly!!

Silly to book
or silly not to book

Tie up your camel, then trust in allah

I do not NEED to book for after 29 March just yet
so I won't

Re the driving licences - I have hired cars in the USA and Thailand with no problem with a U.K. licence, so why would being not part of the EU affect driving in the EU?

hoovering
Because the UK is currently part of the EU reciprocal agreements with the rest of the world.

Once the UK leaves the EU it is no longer part of those agreements

so no other country will be insured to accept UK documents
if there is no deal

No fan of Theresa May. But as a diabetic, she's hardly going to allow insulin supplies to stop, is she?

Me neither. Somehow though I bet she'd find it easier to get insulin than the average British diabetic.

@hooveringhamabeads - you have an EU licence that was issued in the UK. All agreements regarding travel, recognition of documents etc were negotiated at EU level and apply to citizens of EU member states and documents issued by EU member states.

Once brexit happens, you will no longer be a citizen of an EU member state and therefore will not be able to avail of any agreements made by the EU. If there is a no deal brexit, new deals will need to be made by the UK to ensure recognition of documents etc. As the British government seem to plan on going to the wire, it is highly unlikely deals will be made in advance of the March deadline.

Serious question - I'm not British. I am aware of these facts so how come so many British people do not seem to understand this? Is it an ostrich approach or is your media really not discussing these issues?

they made me it’s both, sadly.

to add to Bomb's one sentence from the same IATA No Deal Article - Much of this could be secured through mutual recognition of existing standards.

Which is most likely given that EU Standards had to reach those of the existing UK CAA Standards pre-EASA (2002-2012).

A major feature of the Aviation Industry is Risk Planning - and most people that fly planes have 'unflappable' and 'logical thought in extreme circumstances' in their DNA, as do most others involved in the Industry.

I've booked my flights for a cheap hol at Easter - whatever happens, i won't be stressing about it.

@BaronessBomburst - Whilst I can believe that the French might make the border as bloody difficult as they can, the Dutch are a laid-back and pragmatic people

Seriously? The Dutch will not be making unilateral deals with anyone. They are part of the EU and part of Schengen. The UK needs to make a deal with the EU, not the individual member states.

@HateIsNotGood - Much of this could be secured through mutual recognition of existing standards.

But a deal needs to be done in order to ensure mutual recognition of standards. That will take time.

NotGood
The Aviation industry is indeed risk planning

• airlines are moving their domicile out of the UK
• Heathrow has the funds to shut for two months

but unless the politicians sign on the dotted line, there is nothing they can do

so it depends how good you think the politicians are

It’s the mutual recognition bit that might prove elusive, because it’s not the logical and unflappable (a joke perhaps?) people who are handling the negotiations.

No they it really doesn't - the EU's version of Aviation Standards (EASA) was only formed to 'regularize' all the different Member States existing CAA regulations into one. So, all the 28 States had to reach the level set by the UK CAA (which is the premium level of Aviation Standards); the UK CAA didn't lower theirs.

The Aviation Industry itself recognizes this and has many pre-existing International Agreements to draw upon if needed. I personally hold up the International Aviation Industry as an exemplar of International and Global Agreements - but that wouldn't be very relevant to most who just want to catch their flight to The Med I know.

HateisNotGood
The pre existing agreements have been superceded.
They are as dead as a parrot
we cannot fall back on them as they are no longer valid.

All international treaties supercede and cancel what went before to prevent potential conflicts

@HateIsNotGood - I'm not suggesting that the UK standards are not adequate. As it stands, the UK is part of the EU agreements so doesn't need to have any form of agreement separate to that. Once out of the EU, an agreement will have to be signed between the EU and the UK as one does not currently exist. This will take a certain amount of time to draw up. If a deal is done pre-deadline, then all will be fine. The problem arises if no deal is done.

Obviously for other countries, the pre-EU agreements will kick in so, for example, the agreement with the US will allow flights from Heathrow to the US. Only certain airlines will be allowed to fly those routes. Problem is that most of the pre-EU agreements don't reflect today's reality in terms of traffic.

Really not so Talkin but you seem set on looking at it that way so there is no more for me to add except, let's see how it pans out.

You're worried about it and I'm not - let's agree that at least.

Obviously for other countries, the pre-EU agreements will kick in so, for example, the agreement with the US will allow flights from Heathrow to the US. Only certain airlines will be allowed to fly those routes.

Will they though they - bacause apparently all is not obvious.

Besides what i do know all i know is that the EU is not quite so 'all-powerful nor knowledgeable' to start to exert control over Global Airspace. EU Airports yes, but the EU decides by 'corporatism' which includes listening to 'advice' as part of its legislatory powers.

Do you really think the EU would shoot itself that badly?
I don't - and even then I chose to LTB.