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Ocado siding with misogynists and agreeing that the word "woman" and its dictionary definition is hate speech

217 replies

PerverseConverse · 26/09/2018 20:57

Mumsnetters in their droves are abandoning Ocado after they sided with advertising company, Primesight, for removing Standing for Women's billboard in Liverpool. The billboard was a very simple dictionary definition of the word "woman." This has been declared homophobic and hate speech by Dr. Harrop who demanded the billboard be removed.
Since when did the very word, "woman" equal transphobic hate speech?
Posie Parker, the woman behind Standing for Women, was on Sky News this afternoon with Dr. Harrop defending the rights of women and the right to call ourselves women.
Shares in Ocado have gone down today and the company amidst a torrent of cancellations have said they will issue a statement today. So far they haven't done so but all their tweets saying Primesight reflected their company values have been deleted along with the many comments that followed.
Is it unreasonable to boycott Ocado for publicly showing themselves to be against women, who after all are their target consumer group? Scores of posters on the feminist boards don't think so but I'd love to hear the opinions of those outside of the feminist boards.

Ocado siding with misogynists and agreeing that the word "woman" and its dictionary definition is hate speech
OP posts:
GladAllOver · 01/10/2018 11:43

If it wasn't Ocado's view then Ocado had only to say on twitter that it wasn't their view. Over and done with in moments.

MorningsEleven · 01/10/2018 11:53

Looking forward to David in the cabbage van delivering to me this afternoon. Well done Ocado.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 01/10/2018 13:02

Still no word from Ocado, although I emailed to complain on Wednesday.

Hmmm. Looks like a followup email is in order.

Mumminmum · 01/10/2018 13:48

Oh, so the billboard made the TWs feel uncomfortable and unsafe in a public space. So now they have tried to "feel like a woman".

Have any of you ever heard about a billboard being removed because it made women feel uncomfortable or unsafe? I haven't. But according to the TWs we are the snowflakes. Hmm. I call BS.

LenGoodmansPickledWalnuts · 01/10/2018 15:50

I've had an apology email distancing themselves from the Twitter warrior. Anyone else?

Molokonono · 01/10/2018 15:55

Yes.

I will respond asking them for a link to the apology on the same platform as the initial issue.

RepealtheGRA · 01/10/2018 15:55

They also now appear to be employing people to leave rave reviews on trust pilot.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 01/10/2018 16:05

Yeah. I got the "sorry not sorry" email from Ocado. I emailed back saying it wasn't good enough - that Ocado need to explicitly recognised that sex is one of the 9 protected characteristics.

whenlifegetshard · 01/10/2018 16:16

I too have just cancelled my Ocado account

No more of my custom thank you very much

Women are being systematically erased and they support it. No thank you.

ConcreteUnderpants · 01/10/2018 16:19

Exactly the same message here.

Asked for a link to their online apology...

RatRolyPoly · 01/10/2018 16:37

I personally don't think there's anything offensive about a dictionary definition.

That's not to say I think the dictionary is the new Bible and that I have to live my life by it. Ultimately I think the text on that billboard is neither offensive nor particularly important. It's like, yeah, that's what's written in the dictionary, and?

Almost every post on this thread though seems to be saying the reason this was taken down was because the words themselves had been reported as transphobic. That's not what I read. I read the following:

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/mums-call-for-a-boycott-of-ocado-in-backlash-over-transphobic-billboard-ad-a3950011.html

Seems pretty clear in that article that it was taken down because the organisation who commissioned it were reported as a transphobic hate group who spread propoganda and hate-speech. He even says, "look beyond what meets the eye" - as in, look beyond just the words on the Billboard.

I don't know enough about the organisation itself to say whether they're transphobic, but I know the text isn't. But the text isn't why it was taken down.

The subtext is why it was taken down.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 01/10/2018 16:48

I don't know enough about the organisation itself to say whether they're transphobic

Maybe you should.

UpstartCrow · 01/10/2018 16:48

Meanwhile, this trans persons crimes are recorded as having been committed by a woman;

metro.co.uk/2018/10/01/trans-woman-41-pretended-to-be-a-boy-to-groom-a-girl-7994533/

Ocado siding with misogynists and agreeing that the word "woman" and its dictionary definition is hate speech
RatRolyPoly · 01/10/2018 16:50

Maybe you should.

I know enough about Posie to know what I think of this group, but I'm sure there is a lot I don't know. And couldn't know. I know enough for my own purposes, thank you.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 01/10/2018 16:53

I know enough about Posie to know what I think of this group, but I'm sure there is a lot I don't know. And couldn't know. I know enough for my own purposes, thank you.

What a tounge twister of absolute nonsense....

What you mean is i have an opinion of Posie so it's coloured my view of this group.

Queenofthedrivensnow · 01/10/2018 16:55

Happy to boycott

Molokonono · 01/10/2018 17:00

Lol.

They:
Put a poster up
MAke t-shirts with the same dictionary definition
Hold meetings that anyone can attend.

Hate group? Come off it.

CharlieParley · 01/10/2018 17:44

Seems pretty clear in that article that it was taken down because the organisation who commissioned it were reported as a transphobic hate group who spread propoganda and hate-speech. He even says, "look beyond what meets the eye" - as in, look beyond just the words on the Billboard.

Let me just remind you of one pertinent fact. The Home Office maintains a register of hate groups. No woman's group is on this register. None will go on that register based on what they are saying:

"Men cannot become women"
"Women don't have a penis"
"Women's rights matter"
"Women's sex-based rights are under attack"
"Females have a right to define themselves - in language and in law - in a category separately from males"
"Transwomen are not women"
"Woman means adult human female"
"Gender reassignment surgery on children is illegal and should remain illegal"
"A frock does not a woman make"
"Woman is not a costume"
"Woman is not a performance"
"Male violence is the biggest threat females face"
"Transwoman are male"
"Transwomen commit crime at the same rate as all other men"
"Women have a right to have things that exclude males, like sports or scholarships or refuges"
"Gender ideology is harmful to women and girls"
"There is no ladybrain"
"There is no such thing as a gendered soul"
etc etc

These words are not only true in the sense of accurately representing material reality, these words are also neither hateful nor are they inciting hatred or violence - both as defined in law and in and of themselves.

Freedom of Thought, Freedom of Expression and Freedom of Assembly apply to women who want to think these thoughts and who want to meet publicly to express them.

So, while I have no idea where Standing for Women stands legally in terms of the breach of contract that taking the poster down represents if the billboard company does not refund them, I'd give a court case a better than even chance to be won by Standing for Women.

Companies providing a service are not allowed to discriminate against people with a protected characteristic as they seem to have done here. The company cannot prove that Standing for Women is a hate group which they would have to do to justify breaching the contract.

Not that I expect Standing for Women to sue. That £700 was money well spent in any case - you couldn't have paid for that kind of exposure of the situation women find themselves in.

I peaktransed someone in record time today and I expect this to continue. No matter how much the line is pushed that this poster was transphobic, most people just don't agree. As my now peaktransed friend said: this proposal is taking it too far. And the banning of meetings and posters like that makes proving that it has gone too far very easy. Two minutes. Is all it took. So I'm going to give all of the women I know this exact same brief talk. Let's see how many of them agree with sex self-identification.

And I feel I should really thank all of the self-id campaigners and men's rights activists who keep coming here and telling me I'm a bigot and a transphobe and aggressive and hateful. Because I am channelling my anger about these baseless accusations and turning them into action.

Thanks for showing me the hill I'm actually prepared to die on. Not something I ever expected to happen. Not after nearly 50 years of avoiding political strife and hiding in the background. I'm going to be loud and proud. From boring housewife to radical feminist activist.

CharlieParley · 01/10/2018 17:53

Just wanted to add to this:

Let me just remind you of one pertinent fact. The Home Office maintains a register of hate groups. No woman's group is on this register. None will go on that register based on what they are saying

What is a hate group is clearly defined in UK law and publicly calling a group a hate group just because you do not agree with their views is unwise to the extreme. The UK's libel laws provide excellent protection against such baseless defamations and as these groups now have lawyers phoning them to offer to act pro bono for them, I would be very careful with your words.

Mumminmum · 02/10/2018 09:33

@CharlieParley I need a "like" button on mumsnet. Thank you for the very clear overview.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 02/10/2018 10:23

Excellent post, Charlie.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 02/10/2018 10:24

I hope legal action is taken.

Datun · 02/10/2018 10:42

Charlie. Thank you for that information. I did not know there was an official list of hate groups.

That is an incredibly significant and useful piece of information.

Molokonono · 02/10/2018 10:46

The UK's libel laws provide excellent protection against such baseless defamations and as these groups now have lawyers phoning them to offer to act pro bono for them, I would be very careful with your words

Does this mean that Posie Parker could sue RatRolyPoly for defamation or would she sue Mumsnet for publishing those words?

Good job she has a healthy crowdfunder eh?

Datun · 02/10/2018 10:53

I also want to add that one of the characteristics of the transactivist campaign is riding roughshod over current laws, protocols and customs.

People are bewildered and will turn around and say hang on, what Posie and WPUK are saying isn't hate! And they're not inciting violence.

But the underlying laws that prop up this language isn't something that everyone has at their fingertips.

Nonetheless, they are binding.

The Leeds counsellor who didn't understand that they couldn't willy nilly cancel a venue, because it's not private.

Their individual feeling about the subject matter is irrelevant. The government are asking women to be part of the consultation. Meeting in public is what they are expecting.

The accusation that women belong to a group. Now, it appears, 'hate group' is an official designation.

The dispensing with safeguarding protocols and why we have them. And how long they've taken to formulate.

I know they have some lawyers, top-notch lawyers, on the case who will absolutely understand the law.

But many people are slinging round these accusations as though there is no recourse, and they're not accountable.

I'm struck afresh, each day, by exactly how many of them act like utter children.

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