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Original poster

to think that Pret are responsible for this young woman's death

374 replies

brizzledrizzle · 23/09/2018 15:35

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45617845

A 15 year old with a sesame allergy died after eating a sandwich from Pret a manger; the company confirmed that 'its products were not individually labelled with allergen or ingredient information.' (missing apostrophe not mine)

I think it's appalling that they don't label products and pretty stupid to bake baguettes with sesame seeds inside if you aren't going to make it very obvious on the packaging that they contain sesame seeds. The government website says that they must be on the packaging because of allergies.

OP posts:
Bombardier25966 · 23/09/2018 16:37

@MorningsEleven Anyone with an allergy sufficiently severe to carry an Epipen should be aware of labelling regulations. Where there is any doubt you should always ask.

It's a terrible story for all involved, the young woman and her family, the crew and the staff at Pret. I'm not sure how the law could be changed, as a requirement to list all potential allergens is just going to lead to every sandwich being listed with every allergen - so removing any choice at all for those with allergies.

SeaGlassHunter · 23/09/2018 16:43

This is terribly sad, but Pret were within the law (unless they were asked about allergens and told her that it didn't contain them).

My 14yo DS is lactose intolerant and quite used to asking about allergens, I would expect a teenager with a more serious allergy would be even more so.

MongerTruffle · 23/09/2018 16:44

Yes legally anything made on site that day does not need individual allergens listed. Presumably the girl picked up the sandwich, didn’t realise the law is different for products made on site

That's not true at all.
Retailers have to provide a list of ingredients on request for foods that are not packaged. This has been the case in the EU for a very long time.

MongerTruffle · 23/09/2018 16:46

Oops - I've just realised that I misread your post.

Artofpretending · 23/09/2018 16:47

Maybe some teenagers take risks when eating out more than an adult would. I know a teenager with a nut allergy who died on holiday after accepting food offered to him on a train.

bridgetreilly · 23/09/2018 16:48

That's a cop out isn't it? If that's the law then it needs to be changed.

I think that puts a huge burden on cafes and places that make food in house every day. Allergen information DOES have to be available, but not printed because to do that every day, especially in a place where a menu might change every day, is unrealistic. I don't think it's unreasonable for people with allergies to have to ask in a place where they make their own food.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 23/09/2018 16:49

Deepest sympathy to the poor girl's family, as other PP have said a tragic case. I got the impression from the coverage in the Sunday Times this might be more complex though ??

There seemed to be a suggestion that there were also questions for British Airways as to why the flight wasn't diverted after she developed anaphylaxis soon after takeoff and was given 2 doses of her own Epi-pen plus a further injection from the onboard medical supplies.

In addition, the inquest seems quite delayed and I got the impression from the coverage that it hadn't yet concluded. I'm no Lawyer - but that seems to be that the Coroner is looking at the case in more detail - I'm sure others can advise.

Scary for any allergy sufferers though.

DorasBob · 23/09/2018 16:56

FFS, what on earth is with people blaming a teenager who DIED for eating a sand which that was incorrectly labelled.

I have a nut allergy - often when you ‘ask a member of staff’ you get a shrug and advice not to buy anything because they can’t be sure. Which should be illegal in my opinion, why should I be discrimated against because of a medical condition because cafes and resteraunts have disgusting food hygiene practices? If it shouldn’t have nuts in it, it shouldn’t have nuts in it!! No one would accept pulling a piece of salmon out of a brownie because they are ‘prepared in the same kitchen’

AlexaShutUp · 23/09/2018 16:57

What a tragic case. That poor family. Sad

serbska · 23/09/2018 17:02

How many of us would have known that?

I knew it. Anyone who has a serious allergy should know it. People have to take responsibility a little bit for themselves.

soulrider · 23/09/2018 17:02

I think some people are misunderstanding the labelling issue. It's not that food made on site has ingredients on the packaging but doesn't have to have allergens labelled, it's the fact that it doesn't have to have ingredients listed on the packaging at all. Someone couldn't pick up a sandwich and read the ingredients list and think it was safe as there was no mention, what should happen is they pick up the sandwich, see there's no ingredients and have to ask to be sure.

rainbowsandsmiles · 23/09/2018 17:03

Its a tragic accident, no one is to blame, with such a serious allergy the teenager really should have been more careful

Apparently it was baked INTO the bread and offsite.
How on earth is the girl supposed to know if you can't see any on there and there's no allergens listed?
As someone who suffers from allergies I find this awful - even if you are careful and think you're OK with something, if they're hidden it doesn't matter how careful you are.
Sad

serbska · 23/09/2018 17:11

FFS, what on earth is with people blaming a teenager who DIED for eating a sand which that was incorrectly labelled

FFS what is it with people who can’t read a simple newspaper article and comprehend it was not incorrectly labelled.

LydiaLunch7 · 23/09/2018 17:11

Spot on post by JimmyGrimble. It's very rarely as simple or black and white as people like to imagine. Especially with teenagers!

Only on mumsnet would this descend into grammar

You mean only on mumsnet would people reply to something raised in the OP of the thread?

KlutzyDraconequus · 23/09/2018 17:17

I shall continue never eating at PretAManger.

TatianaLarina · 23/09/2018 17:19

I have a friend with a life threatening nut allergy. He just never eats in restaurants or buys food out. It’s shit, but it’s the only way you can be 100% sure.

My DH once had to tend to someone who was taken seriously ill on a BA flight he said the medical supplies were shit. (He’s a doctor).

TatianaLarina · 23/09/2018 17:23

Maybe some teenagers take risks when eating out more than an adult would. I know a teenager with a nut allergy who died on holiday after accepting food offered to him on a train.

I knew someone who died of one when we were very early 20s. This was before the days of thorough labelling and when extreme allergies were more rare.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 23/09/2018 17:24

How on earth is the girl supposed to know if you can't see any on there and there's no allergens listed?

Most foods you can't see what ingredients are 'inside'. And there was nothing listed about any allergens or any ingredients because it was fresh food made that day.

The girl chose to gamble on her life when she could have checked with staff if it was safe. I am a vegetarian and I would always check/ask if there was meat in something when buying out. If I had a serious allergy I 100% would check. If I had a serious allergy and was going on an aeroplane I 1000% would checked actually I would bring my own food

RangeRider · 23/09/2018 17:25

I have a nut allergy - often when you ‘ask a member of staff’ you get a shrug and advice not to buy anything because they can’t be sure. Which should be illegal in my opinion, why should I be discrimated against because of a medical condition because cafes and resteraunts have disgusting food hygiene practices?
But you're not being discriminated against. You can buy items if you wish but you then run a risk. The staff can't say for certain if something is free from allergic ingredients so they say they're not sure and advise you don't buy it just in case - what should they do if they can't be personally certain, say 'I'm sure it will be fine' and wait to see if you collapse?

ForgivenessIsDivine · 23/09/2018 17:30

I haven't read all of the responses but the young girl, who carries an epien, bought an item in a shop she could reasonably have expected to have the allergens identified on the packed. It wasn't humous and didn't have seeds on the outside.

She may have had her sesame allergy identified years ago and may never have had an allergic reaction. The advice changes and is inconsistent depending on which immunologist you see and the reactions are unpredictable. For example, I know one child allergic to peanuts (two previous reactions), ate them and vomited but nothing else happened, this does not mean that the next time he has peanuts, he will be OK. Another child I know has a 'scarily high' level on the allergy tests for peanuts but as she is eating them without problems at the moment, the immunologist has advised that she carries on eating them. It is unfair to place any of the blame in this case on the child. I hope the investigation requires a change in the law and a change in the procedures of all food producers.

DorasBob · 23/09/2018 17:32

Rangerider - yes but what I’ve asked is: does this sandwich have nuts in? As in, does it have nuts added in?

Not: please give me a 100% guarantee that all the food you sell will never have come into any contact with nuts, and never will.

Life is unpredictable. No one can be certain of anything. I get that. I want to know if there’s fucking nuts in this cheese sandwich.

DorasBob · 23/09/2018 17:35

Saying: nothing here is suitable for you is basically saying: we don’t want your business as you are too risky. And/or we throw everything together in a haphazard way in the kitchen, don’t wipe surfaces and are generally disgusting

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 23/09/2018 17:38

I am torn in this

For the family my heart goes out to them . Maybe they had had a good run re attacks and didn’t think to check . Either way the labelling should have said ‘may contain nuts’

But I would suspect that if you have a potentially lethal allergy that home cooked food and no pre packed food is a safer route surely ? Sesame is in a lot of products and is a common bread seed

Awful for the family and not sure why you started the thread to be honest

Bombardier25966 · 23/09/2018 17:41

Rangerider - yes but what I’ve asked is: does this sandwich have nuts in? As in, does it have nuts added in?

Not: please give me a 100% guarantee that all the food you sell will never have come into any contact with nuts, and never will.

If the seller says no to the first para, legally they're also saying no to the second para, and making themselves liable should the item then have (trace of) nuts in it.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 23/09/2018 17:46

she could reasonably have expected to have the allergens identified on the packed

If you have a life threatening allergy then buy fresh food with no information/ingredients/allergy information on it & are about to go somewhere with no access to A&E, then it is UNREASONABLE to assume anything about the contents of the freshly made food.

It was an accident but with some common sense (maybe more education) an avoidable accident.