to think that Pret are responsible for this young woman's death

[brizzledrizzle]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45617845

A 15 year old with a sesame allergy died after eating a sandwich from Pret a manger; the company confirmed that 'its products were not individually labelled with allergen or ingredient information.' (missing apostrophe not mine)

I think it's appalling that they don't label products and pretty stupid to bake baguettes with sesame seeds inside if you aren't going to make it very obvious on the packaging that they contain sesame seeds. The government website says that they must be on the packaging because of allergies.

Actually the Govt guidelines say that allergy information does have to be printed

Printed where? They would have it printed out behind the counter, readily available for anyone who asked. Unfortunately this girl didn't ask, she just guessed.

Guidelines are NOT law.
It would be literally impossible for many places to have printed allergy information on every packet. Take for example a small cafe that has a handful of pre prepared sandwiches boxed up for customers in a hurry. Said cafe varies the type of salad on their sandwiches throughout the year based upon what is in season and available for the best price. While the cafe usually has the same type of bread delivered daily from one supplier on occasion this may be out of stock at no notice meaning they have to use a slightly different type of bread with different instructions. The same principle can occur with the fillings for the sandwich meaning they can use various different types of ham on different days. As it is a small business the cafe only has a singular domestic style printer and plain white A4 paper available. How exactly should they print attachable allergy information when they cannot be sure of the exact composition of their sandwiches until they are made at which point they go immediately on sale.

So not "literally impossible". Just a bit cumbersome.

In today's lawsuit culture if you sell something, there's no excuse for not being able to say what's in it.

How would Subway print up an allergen list for every baguette. Every single one sold is literally different.

Walkingdeadfangirl - we’ll, yeah but it’s kinda self explanatory isn’t it. Onions contain onions, lettuce contains lettuce.

What would not be ok is for subway to have a sesame seed bread called ‘bread’ or a peanut mayonnaise called ‘mayonaise’

I’ve had to ask about the breads before. They have me an allergen sheet with everything on. That’s fine. I obviously don’t expect a written allergy list for the sandwich I’ve just put together

What I want when I go somewhere and ask if for the person behind the till to say: this sandwich is made of wheat bread, ham and cheese. It doesn’t have nuts added to it.

Not

Well anything could have nuts in, at anytime, because we use almonds on Tuesdays to make marzipan. So you should go elsewhere. It’s ducking bhllshit, can you imagine if a person in a wheelchair got: well you can’t coem in because you’d have to use the lift, and it might breakdown like it did last april

So sad

I think it's unfair to blame Pret. In the photo I saw, the sesame seeds were visible on the crust of the baguette, even tho' they were baked into the dough. When sandwiches are made on site, it's impossible to prevent cross-contamination to factory standards.

It's wrong to blame anyone. Her father was with her on the plane. He must be wishing he'd paid more attention to what she'd bought. Such a sad accident in a tragic set of circumstances.

👍pret were fully within their law. Why are people debating this?

It happened 2 years ago? I thought it was last week as well.

Pret were fully within their law. Why are people debating this?

it's quite simple, Pret baked a known allergen into a sandwich they knew they didn't have to label.

Why is this hard to understand?

DorasBob - so you agree the customer has to exercise some 'common sense' and take some responsibility? What if the Subway is passed on to a third person, who has responsibility for allergies in a fresh sandwich that has no allergy/ingredient list attached to the packaging?

What about all the ingredients, who will explain what was in the factory that produced the ingredient? Does the server hand over the bottle for a customer to read what the ingredients or does the customer have a responsibility to ask "does this sandwich contain any sesame"? "Has this chicken touched pork"? "Could their be nut dust in the pattie"? "Is this McDonald burger, vegetarian"?

Maybe customers in food shops should stop guessing what is in food and actually ask about allergies. If you cant be arsed to ask are you really going to read the ingredients list?

Of course it’s safest to ask.

But it’s not realistic to expect people to ask about everything they buy. So for example, if I’m ordering chips in McDonald’s, I don’t ask. If I’m ordering a brownie in an independent bakery, I do.

If I pick up a ham and cheese sandwich in Pret in white bread, it’s a reasonable assumption that it does not have nuts in, and I would expect it to be clear on the label if it did. If Pret mixed peanut butter in the bread and this was not clear in the label, they are morally responsible for any adverse outcome that happens. If they aren’t legally yet, we’ll lets hope that changes.

Also - people who produce things are responsible for not contaminating their products. I don’t expect not dust on my burger patty, anymore than I expect needles in my strawberries, or horse meat in my beef mince. And I expect to be able to sue if I find these things in, as they are being missold at my detriment. It’s not on to put ‘may Contain nuts’ on things that shouldn’t, anymore than it would be to put ‘may contain needles’ or ‘may contain dogmeat’

It’s really not hard to understand —if you have even a tiny amount of empathy—

Incredibly tragic, however, this is one of the very reasons why the anaphylaxis campaign advise against e.g. schools etc withdrawing all foods with certain ingredients such as nuts as children do not learn to check for allergens from as early as possible and become complacent as they’ve never had to be aware of what ingredients are in foods as the allergens have always just been removed for them.

And teenagers are most likely to have severe allergic reactions as they are less likely to check anyway.

I don’t think this was actually anyone’s fault. But I do think that rather than opportioning blame there needs to be as much emphasis on young people being absolutely aware of their allergies and growing up needing to check because it can’t always be guaranteed that an establishment, friend, relative etc will have been aware or have made provision.

My DS had a friend in early secondary who has a severe nut allergy. He walked into my house one day unexpectedly, picked up a pack of sweets and casually asked whether they contained nuts. When I said that I didn’t know and that he needed to check the packaging he simply replied that it was alright because he has an epipen in the event of a reaction. it’s the kind of complacency which has seen him carted off in an ambulance on more than one occasion since starting secondary. (Fortunately never on my watch,)

If I pick up a ham and cheese sandwich in Pret in white bread, it’s a reasonable assumption that it does not have nuts in
If I had a nut allergy then I would NOT think it reasonable to assume there is no nut at all in the bread. Bread is made in massive factories and it is normal that some breads do contain nuts...

If you want a guarantee then buy bread produced in factories that guarantees they are nut free, dont pick generic bread off the shelf and 'hope' its ok.

What factories are those?

I’m not ‘hoping’ it’s ok.
I’m not picking up a nutty looking flapjack and crossing my fingers, I’m living my life as everyone is.

Nobody would expect a tuna sandwich to have peanuts in. I’m not taking a crazy risk by picking one up, reading the description and buying t without ringing the factory to ask if they can guarantee the bread is nut free.

What planet are you on?

“Sesame is among DS1's many allergies and it wouldn't even occur to me that it would be in a plain (non seeded, non tiger) baguette.”

It wasn’t a plain baguette. I’ve just Googled, and found this stock image of the artichoke and tapenade baguette on their Twitter page from 2 years ago.

It’s quite clear that it’s seeded. Very, very sad for the poor girl and her family, but it’s a real stretch to lay the blame solely at the feet of Pret.

I had a sandwich that had been on the wrong shelf, as a veggie I took a brie sandwich off that marked brie and got to work took a bite to find fucking tuna, no label on the actual sandwich, went back a swapped it but luckily it was just my principles at stake not my life.

I never knew sesame was used in tiger bread and brioche buns. Just checked some I have in the freezer and it is not listed as an ingredient

Didn't know about sesame seed as not allergic to them, but brioche buns usually contain egg but rarely advertise the fact especially if you get them from a takeaway. Night out takeaways of wanting a burger? Lots of places now switching to brioche buns instead of normal ones and you've no way of knowing until you get home and take a bite of your burger.
Same here in this tragic case. Luckily I've not been that bad but can easily see how it's something that you're not aware of and just eat.

Should say I'm allergic to egg - thankfully touch wood not fatally but enough to be very poorly with.

DorasBob "I’m not picking up a nutty looking flapjack and crossing my fingers, I’m living my life as everyone is."

But you cant live your life as everyone else does, you have to avoid anything that has nuts. You have to ensure you dont eat anything that that has nuts in it. Its you responsibility not everyone else's. We all have to work with the hand we are dealt.

I think it's unfair to blame Pret. In the photo I saw, the sesame seeds were visible on the crust of the baguette, even tho' they were baked into the dough

If they're baked into the dough and then presumably wrapped in cellophane as sandwiches tend to be, how can you automatically tell? Baked in must mean that they're not there, on the bread to see at a rushed glance?
Sesame seeds tend to be on the bread as opposed to being inside. Meaning easy to tell.

Walkingdeadfangirl - are you buy chance a brexiter/right winger? You seem very keen on minimising any corporate responsibility.

Its my responsibility to buy food that does not have nuts in. It’s the shop I’m buying it froms responsibility to label the food that does have nuts in, and make sure things that shouldn’t have nuts in, don’t.

This, if I eat a tuna sandwich, after reading the label indicting it doesn’t have nuts in, and it does, it’s not my fault.

To be honest though, this is so basically obvious that I’m checking out for the evening. I don’t have time to explain simple concepts to the unfortunately dim. It really is your job to educate yourself and work on your worrying lack of basic empathy. We all have to work with the hand we are dealt

presumably wrapped in cellophane as sandwiches tend to be, how can you automatically tell?
Why would they be wrapped in cellophane? They are freshly made food. There is the option to have them toasted. They are not prepackaged sandwiches. If your not sure just ASK.