To think life shouldn’t be easier for those on benefits than those who work?

[Alwaysoverdrawn]

obviously not including the disabled, elderly etc in this

I am so fed up of being poor so I looked into doing an access course to increase my earning potential. My sister is doing one and is currently on benefits, she gets it for free with her childcare paid.

Having spoken to them, we earn too much to be considered for help. Having looked into mine and my sisters finances I think this is frankly bloody ridiculous. We are worse off than her ffs.

We make around £2,500 NET p/m, £1000 rent, £900 childcare -2 adults, 2 kids. So £600 ‘disposable’ pm with a lot of debts to pay.

She gets £670pm plus her full rent paid and a council tax reduction for her and one child.

AIBU to think life shouldn’t be ‘easier’ for those on benefits than those who work?

DP hasn’t been to the dentist despite needing to for years as he can’t afford treatment, I’m really down today. Seriously considering moving out so that I can claim benefits and get out of this horrible rut.

There should be more help for people in the working poor bracket OP.

Most people in the real world know this. On MN nobody is taking the piss, every NMW job gets you a great lifestyle and there are no fraudulent claims. Not so much in the real world.

Fact is, if it was not going to cause a drop in income for many people to go to work, or create instability with their benefits (such is a case for a good friend of mine who is disabled, she could work now but may not be able to in future and she is terrified she won’t have an easy time getting her needed benefits back.

This is part of a broken system and the way to fix it is to help people in work, make sure wages are decent and offer means tested support to families rather than them being only based on what benefits you receive.

During my last pregnancy, the housing benefit team cocked up my amounts so often, that I would have been evicted from my home 3 times had I been in private rented accommodation.

Housing benefit, universal credit and, to some extent tax credits are a real worry when you’re working. They often spiral you into uncontrollable situations and it’s hard! I’m so glad we don’t need them anymore but at our most vulnerable, when we did need them, they were necessary but also incredibly stressful as they are not set up for people in work.

If people don’t get that or feel it’s appeoriate in light of this posters misfortune to rant about goats and TV’s, then you are a mixture of cruel and privileged because you don’t have to deal with this shit.

@Alwaysoverdrawn I can't see if you explained somewhere, bt how come you are not entitled to Student finance? Same goes for another poster who mention they had to leave course due to finances. You probably wouldn't get maintenance but surely you would get fees covered.

I don't get why people refuse to see that what you meant was
"There should be more help for working families on low income" . Maybe it's the title and the just go into automatic "defend against benefit bashers" mode and then it might be too hard to switch the mindset, I guess.

You are right though. It's not everyone who is better off obviously, but I have met some who weren't keen on moving into a workforce because they didn't have it so bad. There will obviously be a big Sout/North devide here as well due to living costs.

There should certainly be a fairer system so working people can get more help if needed.

Going back to your original point of affording an Access course, you might be eligible for an advanced learner loan which you would repay when you earn over £25k pa:

www.gov.uk/advanced-learner-loan

The loans are for adults studying at level 3 or above. Specifically for Access courses, if you then do a degree your loan for the Access course is written off.

I haven’t been on / needed to access benefits (husband earns close to 50k ) so can’t compare. But I have been looking into seperating from my husband and in our area, housing lists are years long, the whole system of applying for benefits/housing seems terrifying and frustrating. I feel like I may as well stay put, we don’t speak much anymore, just try to get my because of the kids.

Well said @Cantekerous Camel i often think many people dont want tp see what is going on outsde of their comfotable middle class existences and would rayther make "hilarious refetences" to goats and widescreen tv,s instead and we ate benefit claimants.

A friend of mine, who is in her sixties and working full time, lives next door to a woman a couple of years older who returned to the UK from Spain after 20 odd years. Because of connections she was given the HA house next door, receives a pension and pension credits, doesn’t work and doesn’t pay rent. As she is a couple of years older she qualified for her pension at age 63. My friend is REALLY struggling she gets £1350 after tax but pays £650 rent, £150 Council tax, needs a car for work and to get to work, £20 per week petrol.
This is an example of how someone is better of on benefits than someone who works. My friend qualifies for her old age pension in 5 years.

She also needs, gas, electricity and water rates. She has about £200 per month for food and clothing and other expenses.

Yes AamdC

They are the equivalent of the ‘woke’ generation failing over themselves to stand up against transphobia whilst calling for feminists to be sent to the gulag.

It really is pathetic, laughable and the height of pompous disassociation.

Of course I can make the comparison between my situation, trying to keep my home and pay off debt that has seemingly been pulled out from the arse of the housing benefit team while having next to no money to feed my kids and try and cobble bits together for a new child because maternity allowance is So woeful and, even if it wasn’t, it wouldn’t make a difference because if one figure goes up (wages/allowance) the others drop (tax credits/housing benefit).

I ended up going back to work when my child was six weeks old because it was that or choose between food and fuel. Every time I got things sorted and could make things work, a Brown envelope would come through the door and totally mess our lives up. The school were having to help us out with uniform and continually asking if we were eligible for FSM because we were literally drowning. This is the reality of a working family at the moment.

Now we no longer need TC or HB thank goodness but my neighbours get a grand total of £509 a WEEK in benefits for two adults, one who has a sore knee and has used this to get disability allowance (yet walks 2 miles to the school regularly) and one who is her ‘carer’ and their three children.

Even now, with me earning well and DH on a decent wage, we don’t come close to that amount of money and we are entitled to nothing.

That’s the issue, the discrepancy between the amount you can receive help on top of and the amount that you can receive in benefits.

My husband shouldn’t know that we would be better off if he didn’t live with us.

My income as a two working parent family should be a comfortable one. I’m not saying benefits should be reduced, or people have it amazing, I’m saying working families should be more supported and as a bare minimum, family support (like free school meals, help wirh school trips etc) should be means tested.

I didn’t get to spend 9 months/a year at home with my daughter but I am so grateful I have a job I love and a supportive husband. I also love our life, I’m proud that I pay to support our own.

I am far, FAR from jealous. But I can see the discrepancy because I’ve lived it.

Can I just add that it does nobody any favours to be priced out of work.

My neighbours are two of the most miserable people I know. They are apathetic, so bored they’re lazy and struggle with basic life skills. My friend does a lot of volunteer work now her kids have left home and would be amazing at doing a bit of admin for pay, but because she has bad days or could and probably will find a time when her health condition could deteriorate, she can’t go and earn money, it would shoot her in the foot.

I am ‘jealous’ of neither scenario, am quite happy with my lot. It’s obviously not healthy all round though

It isn't easier at all.

Graphista
I can wholeheartedly assure you that the child is NOT sick.
And I have MH issues myself. I drag myself into work every day and am never off.

I also think when there are threads about benefit cheats and people on here refuse to beleive it hapoens , becsuse it doesnt hapoen in their comfortable lives and also the extra £50 or £60 quid a week somone might get for doung a bit of cssh in hand work is nothing to them, but i can see that its galling if your working hard in a low paid job and struggling to make ends meet to see people cheating the system and this happens all rhetime in my world.

@AamdC I earn £8.50 an hour and I still feel nothing but sorry for people on unemployment benefits.

I don't agree that being on benefits is easy. I know first hand what a degrading, hostile and intentionally cruel process it is.

Shouldn't you be glad that someone not working us trying to learn new skills, gain qualifications etc that could help her improve her chances of getting a well paid job when she's able to work?

Obviously qualifications etc don't automatically mean better job opportunities, but she's trying.

Yes or they just don’t get how bloody impossible it is when you’re working, living hand to mouth and have to find £400 for school uniform and then tell your kids they can’t do a school trip.

It actually sucks and there should be more help for people in work who are on or below the poverty line.

"The way I see it is there are people on benefits who need to be and there is a small proportion of people who make it a lifestyle choice."

Yes, but it's only a valid lifestyle choice because life on minimum wage and/or having to pay childcare can be so hard. If work really paid and housing wasn't so expensive, being on benefits wouldn't be attractive to anyone.

Gwen

Exactly.

I'm really struggling to see how she's better off than you op. She's has x amount and you say she doesn't pay rent but that's not her disposable income is it - disposable income is money that's not accounted for. Presumably your sister still needs to eat, pay for gas etc. also you have debts to pay- well that's your problem
Nothing to do with your sister being in benefits.

Yanbu. From real life folks I know, there is no struggling going on. What is the incentive to work if you don't have to? It drives me nuts.

Yes, but it's only a valid lifestyle choice because life on minimum wage and/or having to pay childcare can be so hard. If work really paid and housing wasn't so expensive, being on benefits wouldn't be attractive to anyone.

Nail on head.

Being on benefits, or using the system to maximise your hourly rate of earning (why work 2 more days for effectively way less than minimum wage) is rational for a growing amount of individuals. Would not be the case if it wasn't for housing costs and corporate welfare.

I agree that the issue is with wages, so my point (that I’ve said many times) is why not help those who do work rather than making a lot of the help available exclusively for those on benefits.

Bluewidow yes she has £670 for all bills and disposable, I have £600 for all bills and disposable. What are you struggling with?

Incase it was missed - My course is with OU, so a lot of the posts about loans etc while appreciated are not relevant. I can’t afford the time/childcare to go to normal college.

I disagree that it is easier on benefits. Benefits aren't reliable (our tax credits were stopped out of the blue with no explanation, left to find childcare shortfall), plus they have no prospect for progression like working and bringing in a salary does.

However, I do think there should be a lot more help for working families on low incomes. We really struggle sometimes as we are 'in the middle', earn 'too much' for benefits but still struggle to get by paying out for childcare, transport to work etc... I can see where you are coming from OP but I think your household income is likely to increase and your situation improve in the future, whereas it's unlikely hour sister's will, unless she gets a job.

Earning 2.5k a month you are not the working poor!

It's doesn't matter what your disposable income is compared to hers because this is after you've spent your 2.5k on whatever nice things you have!

Our household income is less than half of yours and we don't qualify for any benefits.

My friend could bring home 5k a month but after spending it on high value items like a 5 bed house and a range rover with sky high electric/gas/water bills plus a big council tax bill. She might tell me she only has £100 disposable income left after her rent and bills. Your logic is that she is worse off than me when our disposable income just about covers a food shop.

Does that sound right when I put it like that?

I fully appreciate that you have been fed the image that benefit claimants are handed everything.

I thought this too when I was 18 working full time for minimum wage and struggling with no help in my first flat that had mould and no heat source. I couldn't afford to heat it with electric heaters and eat at the same time.

I've grown up since then with life experience showing me its not that simple but I won't deny a very small percentage abuse the system.

I went back and did level 2 and 3 diploma last year. I got an advanced learner loan so you would think I also didn't pay a penny. I owe it back though. Look at different courses with actual colleges.

Green you’re missing a small point, tax credits etc are only stopped/messed about because the system is so incapable of supporting people in work.

For example, we had to pay some underpaid council tax, we arranged an amount with the council tax people and steadily paid it off, then we started getting letters. Not because we hadn’t paid it off, but because council tax and council rents are done on a weekly/four weekly basis and therefore the 1.5 week discrepancy between their bill and our regular monthly wage created a situation where we were ‘in arrears’ and getting hassled for it.

It took them months to sort out my maternity allowance and when they did they back paid it, however HB then billed my landlord (fortunately the council) a huge pile of money claiming I had fraudelently claimed it and I got threatened with court, hassled from both my landlord AND HB regarding money before I had even had it put into my bank. So all I knew was that I was 37 weeks pregnant and being told to pay £300 of money I simply didn’t have to cover a rental payment I thought had already been paid while also getting threatened with court for fraudelently claiming benefits.

This was after 2 more similar cock ups during my pregnancy in which my wages had dropped (I have a very physical job) so tax credits had gone up which the HB team automatically inputted but needed 6 weeks to drop my income, so my rent was underpaid for months.

Had I not been working, my rent and council tax would be fully paid, I would receive my designated money each week and I would not have had nearly as much stress and drama and worry at the end of my pregnancy.

Totally not worth the £50 odd quid a month I was being earning extra, which was swallowed up by the additional benefits I would have received, like FSM.

So yes, it bloody IS easier to be on benefits in a number of situations, not only financially but also for the levels of shit and stress you have to go through with companies who don’t comprehend the reality of working people.

I agree with the statements OP made later, about work not paying enough but she didn't need to mention benefits or her sister at all. A simple AIBU to think working families should not be struggling to pay for dental treatment and education would have gotten her very different replies.

As for people knowing everyone's financial status (especially in Northern council estates) My northern council neighbour knows the ins and outs of my finances. I'm 'well minted' allegedly because I'm 'on the fiddle'.

She knows this because I get parcels delivered all the time, so clearly have loads of money to spend on catalogues. I go out with my mates all the time, dressed up to the nines, so we must be going somewhere 'posh' and I only work one night a week in a bar, it's cash in hand, obviously or else how would I afford my lavish lifestyle on income support? The rest of the time I sit at home playing computer games. She knows because she sees me through the window sat at my computer at all hours of the day and night.

I know she knows this because she very happily tells everyone who might know me and happened to tell a few people who do actually know me, two of which gave me a heads up in case I was actually 'on the fiddle'

There's a few things wrong with her logic. 1) I don't claim income support and I never have done. 2) I don't have any friends. When I go out 'dressed to the nines' aka with my hair and make-up done and wearing all black, I am going to work, as a mobile hairdresser. 3) I work 3 nights in a bar. I don't know where or why she decided I worked one night. 4) I don't play computer games but I do work from home as a freelance copywriter. 5) The packages I get from catalogues are either dog food and washing powder etc from Amazon because it's cheaper than buying it in town or it's hair products from online wholesalers I use for work.