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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To leave the NHS

127 replies

Jennywren100 · 18/09/2018 20:49

Just that really. Worked in the NHS nearly 20 years. I'm a senior doctor in a front line speciality and I just don't think I can go on. There is no option to move into private practice (there is no private practice in my speciality in the UK), but feel sad at the thought of chucking in nearly a quarter of a century of training (if you include medical school) and experience.

The list of reasons for leaving is varied and long and I know many colleagues feel similarly to me but either have better coping mechanisms than me, care less, or for various reasons leaving simply isn't an option. And I know my department is actually better than many.

I already work part time and took extended leave over the summer to see if a break would help. It hasn’t. My colleagues love me and value me - they regularly tell me, so it’s not about feeling undervalued in my team. It’s about being completely overwhelmed in a failing system......and the public having not one scoobie of an idea that their beloved NHS is about to implode as they daily pour through the doors with an ever increasing list of demands and sense of entitlement and an ever decreasing sense of responsibility for themselves.

I feel like I will have wasted most of my life if I leave but I spend my day being super nice to patients and relatives and come home and am grumpy and miserable to DH and DC - the people who mean most to me in the world. Its all wrong. I have absolutely no idea what I would do if I left. There must be other MNers who feel like this?

OP posts:
malificent7 · 18/09/2018 20:56

Do what you need to do...life is too short. I'm actually starting an NHS course to 'escape' from teaching. Out of the frying pan, into the fire I reckon!

Jennywren100 · 18/09/2018 21:01

malificent, don't! I guess I don't know your exact course, but when people ask me if I'd like DC to do medicine I say "Nope, or teaching......and I'd pay them not to do nursing......the most under paid, overworked, undervalued glass-ceilinged job in the public sector". They are total heroes and I really have no idea how they do it.

OP posts:
ExhaustedAndTired · 18/09/2018 21:02

Yes! Absolutely! I’ve worked in the NHS for 25 years also, and have found it increasingly difficult to cope. I can’t get any work/life balance, as I have sleepless nights after a day at work worrying about patient safety/workload/it just not being sustainable with current staffing levels. I have made the decision in my head but am struggling to actually write my notice, I feel if I do that’s it, career over! Then what? But the stress I feel currently is way too much and has/is making me ill. The sad thing is I bloody love the NHS but agree it is def not sustainable.

ExhaustedAndTired · 18/09/2018 21:03

Jennywren I say the same to my children, do not, under any circumstance ever, be a nurse!! (Guess what I am!)

mistermagpie · 18/09/2018 21:03

I have no advice but SIL is an A&E Dr and I know she talks about leaving all the time. It's just not a job which is really compatible with family life and is incredibly stressful. She treats everyone the same but I know the typical 'drunks on a Saturday night' (it's a city centre hospital) frustrate her a lot. I really don't think you are alone.

BehindEveryCloud · 18/09/2018 21:06

YANBU

ED trained - left at the beginning of the year.

As pp said, life is too short.

Teeniemiff · 18/09/2018 21:08

I work in the Nhs too (mental health) & I know the feeling- more people needing the service, less funding to deliver more provision & yes people taking no responsibility. If still amazes me how much resource is wasted on people not attending appointments or expecting us to fit psychological therapy around their hair appointment! Anyway I feel the frustration & quite often consider leaving my job but unfortunately I have no idea what I’d do.

user1511042793 · 18/09/2018 21:08

30 years as a nurse and I am actively looking to leave. It’s scary what the public don’t know. I am going private. Probably not any better but the work life balance will be. I am missing my children grow up. OP can you go into the deanery or lecture?

Jennywren100 · 18/09/2018 21:10

mister magpie....maybe I'm your SIL Blush

OP posts:
Rarotonga · 18/09/2018 21:10

You only live once and spend so much time at work, you deserve to be happy and not stressed.

I have recently left the NHS, (Allied Health Professional). No regrets as yet. I feel like I'm getting my life back and can finally do a good job as I have a realistic workload.

I hope you reach a decision you are happy with.

rebelrosie12 · 18/09/2018 21:10

Leave! You've not wasted your life. Think of all the patients you've helped and the lives you've touched. There's no other way for the govt to wake up and realise this is a sinking shift if everyone just keeps their head down and ploughs on. Make the change, I hope wherever you end up you have a happy life and a great work life balance :D

PurpleDaisies · 18/09/2018 21:13

Nothing is ever wasted. You’ve got loads of amazing life experience that you can take into your next career, whatever that might be. I’m an ex medic. I don’t regret leaving for a second.

Sewrainbow · 18/09/2018 21:13

I understand... 14 years for me, radiographer. I love being one, I'm a passionate advocate of the NHS, I'm really depressed about work lately though. Morale is low, there's no money for staff or training. Everyone is pulled from pillar to post, no rest. Potential for mistake is huge as we're overworked and understaffed. Management either don't get it (the things some of them come out with) or are frustrated because they can't. It seems that the management of this wonderful institution is being eroded from the top down and no one seems to realise we are so lucky to have it.

So I'm afraid I can't make you feel better. I wish I could leave but short of a lottery win I don't suppose can. My husband is going through similar in teaching. He says hang in there things will change, but my mental health is suffering and if yours is too and you have the option to do something else then seriously consider it...

Racecardriver · 18/09/2018 21:15

Move overseas! I was about to start medical school in Australia when I decided to move to the UK. I had a medical school place lined up here but after a bit of work experienced I was like 'nope' and switched to a different professional degree instead. I have no idea how anyone can last and length of time working for the NHS. It's madness. Medicine is wonderful in many ways. It is interesting and rewarding but the conditions in the NHS are soul destroying (and actually quite dangerous to one's health). You don't have to give up medicine. Just love to a country where doctors are treated properly.

Jennywren100 · 18/09/2018 21:16

what do you do now purpledaises? (if you can say?). I really have no idea what I'd do. I know that anything serious (I do think about a law conversion course) requires just as much time and effort as I'm putting in now, but possibly with only 10% of the frustration.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 18/09/2018 21:18

No problem at all. I’m a teacher (!). I really love it. I’m in SEND and understand medical stuff, being comfortable around disabilities and calm if somebody has a seizure is a big advantage. It’s stressful and busy but not in the same way as before. I’m much happier now.

Cyw2018 · 18/09/2018 21:42

I'm a paramedic (including training been in the NHS just under 20 years), I went onto the bank a few years ago. I know you have already gone part time and are still struggling, but I think Bank/Locum work is a bit different again.

I have no base station or even locality (other than on paper for admin purposes), I just work wherever there is a shift available that fits my plans. This keeps me out of the worst of the workplace politics, and station duties/admin. I just rock up for a shift where I'm needed and then go home at the end.

I decide when I am available to work, and (sadly) due to the shit state of the NHS I rarely struggle to find a suitable shift. I only work days, and I only work part time. I don't have to 'ask permission' for annual leave, if I want to go on holiday I just don't book any shifts. I don't 'have' to work Christmas or new year, and if I do (which I do) it is on my terms, so not 5 Christmases in a row, or four consecutive 12 hour shifts over the Christmas period!! It is amazingly liberating being in control of my own life!!

The downside is that I have very limited employment rights as a zero hour worker, so statutory annual leave and statutory sick pay etc. But I feel less stressed, and less exhausted, and whilst that does not protect me against all sickness, it has certainly help reduced the number of colds/ chest infections (or 5 month continuous one that I had the last winter I worked) I pick up.

Where I live there are not many employment opportunities, and so I decided I had to at least try to find a way of making the NHS work for me.

Would you consider this as an option, even if it is just while you find an alternative career, and get yourself set up in it?

Cyw2018 · 18/09/2018 21:45

That should say ...the last winter I worked nights)

Pollypocket090 · 18/09/2018 21:52

I posted a similar post about 6 weeks ago, but am much more junior than you. Planning to hand in my notice in the next few weeks to month- already counting down my shifts (and trying not to get caught up in harming any patients in the horrendous short staffing/no organisation nightmare) and I am out of there!!!

Not sure what to, mind you 😂

Life is too short. Do what's right for your DC- be happy :)

Pollypocket090 · 18/09/2018 21:54

(My post was under a different user name and I never actually said I was a doctor- although when I said how unhappy my job made me, everyone guessed...)

Jennywren100 · 18/09/2018 22:01

just to give a bit more context.....my reasons include:

We are understaffed every single day, doctors and nurses. We are rarely fully staffed with doctors at night, and often operate with 2/3 of the staff we should. Recently there was one ward in the hospital with one nurse looking after 23 patients.

Not having enough equipment for anything. I recently suggested that we ask patients to put their fluid bags on their heads like i used to do in Africa, because we simply don't have enough drip stands.

Literally never having space to examine patients, because there aren't enough cubicles/chairs/beds.

Having to sort out "fights" between receiving teams at specialist hospitals and within my own hospital. For example, started a shift a few weeks ago and had to sort out situation where a child had been in the department for 10 hours because she needed to be transferred to a specialist centre and neither of our local specialist centres wanted to take her.....because they are also full and understaffed. (This task alone requires multiple phone calls all via hospital switchboards and takes several hours). There are daily stand offs between in-patient specialities, none of which want to take responsibility for the patient who sits in A&E, sometimes for over 20 hours until the dispute is resolved.

Regularly having patients waiting over 8 hours to be seen. The figures that the government doesn’t release is the length of time patients wait after they’ve waited 4 hours (the government target time). Once they are over 4 hours it doesn’t matter if they wait an extra 5 minutes or 15 hours......and many are waiting the latter.

Ordered a blood test on a patient a few days ago. Samples 1,2 &3 were "lost"......but you only discover its been lost after you've phoned the lab 4 times (having tried at least 10 times because the line was engaged 6 of the times you tried) and checked with the porters.....sample 5 was sent 6 hours after the original sample was requested. This is a regular occurrence.

Dealing with distressed (and often rude - although mostly I don't really blame them for being rude) patients who can't get GP appointments, who are being shunted between various specialities and who really just want answers, but can't get the investigations they need, can't get referrals to appropriate specialities, can't afford to go privately and are just fed up of being stuck in the system. And they cry on me. Every single day. and there is nothing I can do to help them except listen, smile and agree that they are getting a shit service (and often they are just appreciate of this).

Having to make beds, put bin liners in bins, fill up trollies with equipment and push patients around the hospital on trollies or wheelchairs because there is no-one else (or not enough) employed to do this. And its not that I think that any of this is beneath me.......but its just isn't a good use of my time or taxpayers money. I could be seeing and treating patients instead.

Having to answer letters of complaint that are utter nonsense usually about situations completely outwith my control, and apologise for things I had nothing to do with.

Listening to and reading daily news stories of NHS failures and doctors who have 'missed' diagnoses. There is one such story pretty much every single day. 99.9% of doctors and nurses come to work to make a positive difference. There are obviously some cases of gross neglect, but most of the stories are twisted by the press. We are human beings. we do make mistakes, and these are increasingly likely in high pressured understaffed environments.

Nobody in NHS management gives a stuff about anything except figures.

And it isn't a money thing. The NHS has plenty of money, its just wasted and misspent.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 18/09/2018 22:06

You don’t have to explain anything. If you’re very unhappy and you can’t see it changing, leave. There are lots and lots of doctors doing the same.

HicDraconis · 18/09/2018 22:10

Something has to break - and you don’t want it to be you, or your relationships with husband and children, so it has to be the job.

There are options if you want to stay in medicine - agency shifts at places and times of your choosing, you could move location to see if a different part of the UK would be less stressful, you could consider changing speciality, or you could do what I did and move to NZ. I rediscovered my love for my job here (anaesthetist) although even here, it’s beginning to feel like the nhs I escaped from 10 years ago.

Or you can change tack entirely. Go into pharma, go into medical technology development, go into a completely different field altogether, go into retail management (medical degrees and ongoing practice give you a large number of other transferable skills), go into teaching/lecturing - work out what you do that gives you self esteem and fulfilment and find a job that lets you do it at least 20% of the time.

Female doctors are the biggest demographic for burnout, stress and depression. You won’t have wasted your life if you get out now, you will have spent many years providing an invaluable service and now start a new chapter. It would be more of a waste to keep plugging away at the risk of your own mental health and family relationships.

Jimdandy · 18/09/2018 22:14

@Jennywren100

And it isn't a money thing. The NHS has plenty of money, its just wasted and misspent.

I always say this. I say there’s plenty of money or just needs running like a private business.

lovelyjubbly11 · 18/09/2018 22:16

I'm a (relatively) senior GP and let's face it - 90% of doctors now realise that the NHS has become an abusive employer that will suck out your last remaining ounce of good will and then leave you hung out to dry when the shit hits the fan. The Bawa-Garba episode has been a real eye opener as to the risks of working in an understaffed department. It's been made slightly worse by our limp union who are busy keeping their powder dry but not managing to preserve conditions (let alone pay).

Many patients are nice but there is an increasing minority who have totally unrealistic expectations of what an increasingly struggling workforce can deliver. One of my partners has just had to respond to a complaint about why it took 4 days to get a non-urgent podiatry referral out. FFS.

I know many colleagues that have left. None have regretted it. Doctors are in high demand in many areas (medical degree proves at least an ability to think) and there are companies that help transition into these. Post on doctors.net - you can be anonymous and people will help.

Best of luck.